[00:00:03] Speaker 00: Next up, we have Enrae Shelton. [00:00:05] Speaker 00: Is Mr. Daniel Keith Larson present? [00:00:13] Speaker 00: I believe we have Misty Perry-Isaacson present for APOLI. [00:00:19] Speaker 02: Okay, Ms. [00:00:21] Speaker 02: Perry-Isaacson, you are all by yourself here. [00:00:24] Speaker 02: You can argue if you wish. [00:00:26] Speaker 02: You can rest on your briefs. [00:00:28] Speaker 02: It's up to you. [00:00:28] Speaker 03: Do you want to ask if she wants to reserve some time, Judge? [00:00:32] Speaker 02: to rebut yourself? [00:00:34] Speaker 04: Sure. [00:00:35] Speaker 04: May I reserve 15 minutes, please? [00:00:38] Speaker 04: Good afternoon, Your Honors. [00:00:40] Speaker 04: Misty Perry-Isaacson, Pagter and Perry-Isaacson on behalf of the APA-LEE, Richard A. Marshak, Chapter 7 trustee. [00:00:46] Speaker 04: I know that you've read the briefs. [00:00:50] Speaker 04: I don't want to belabor the issue. [00:00:52] Speaker 04: I don't have anybody on the other side to respond to. [00:00:56] Speaker 04: I think what's important for this appeal [00:01:00] Speaker 04: is that we focus on what is being appealed, not the backstory, not the collateral attack of state court orders and bankruptcy court orders. [00:01:11] Speaker 04: Before the court is the order approving the trustees final report allowance of professional fees. [00:01:19] Speaker 04: That's what's before the court. [00:01:22] Speaker 04: There are two main issues that the appellant's brief did not address at all. [00:01:30] Speaker 04: I just want to bring up briefly the standing issue. [00:01:34] Speaker 04: The appellant in this case wears three hats. [00:01:38] Speaker 04: And if I may, I'll entitle the first hat, the secured creditor hat. [00:01:44] Speaker 04: The appellant had a 50% interest in a deed of trust, a noted deed of trust that was secured upon the property that was sold by the trustee. [00:01:55] Speaker 04: That's one hat. [00:01:56] Speaker 04: The second hat is the appellant is a beneficiary of the Barbara and Gerald Larson Family Trust. [00:02:05] Speaker 04: That's his second hat. [00:02:07] Speaker 04: The third hat that he wears is he was the trustee of the deed of trust that was recorded against the property for the loan that he had a 50% interest in. [00:02:19] Speaker 04: The trustee argues that in any of these capacities, [00:02:24] Speaker 04: Mr. Larson does not have standing for this appeal. [00:02:29] Speaker 04: As the secured creditor, he was paid in full. [00:02:33] Speaker 04: There's no harm to him for payment of the professional fees. [00:02:37] Speaker 04: He would not receive any additional distributions from the bankruptcy estate, and if... That was agreed upon. [00:02:45] Speaker 01: He agreed upon it, and the court approved the compromise. [00:02:48] Speaker 04: Correct. [00:02:49] Speaker 04: and he was paid in full. [00:02:51] Speaker 04: There is no unsecured claim by Mr. Larson in the case, so he receives nothing further. [00:02:58] Speaker 04: So we would say there's no injury to him by allowance of the professional fees and therefore no standing. [00:03:07] Speaker 04: It somewhat convoluted the brief, but [00:03:12] Speaker 04: If I can, the beneficial interest that he holds in the Larson Family Trust, he is not the trustee of that trust. [00:03:22] Speaker 04: He is just a beneficial owner. [00:03:24] Speaker 01: Let's assume that he did have standing. [00:03:29] Speaker 01: I mean, I'm having a hard time figuring out what he's arguing. [00:03:33] Speaker 01: What is he saying that the judge failed in the exercise of discretion to approve these professional fees? [00:03:41] Speaker 04: He's not. [00:03:42] Speaker 01: He's arguing... That's the issue. [00:03:43] Speaker 01: I mean, if we got by the standing, that's the issue we have to look at, whether the judge properly exercised the judge's discretion to look at these professional fees. [00:03:55] Speaker 01: And I... Go ahead. [00:03:57] Speaker 04: And that's the second issue, Your Honor. [00:03:58] Speaker 04: If we get past standing, assuming we get past standing, the issue is, did the court abuse its discretion in approving the fees? [00:04:07] Speaker 04: You have no transcript. [00:04:09] Speaker 04: There's nothing before the court other than the order to determine whether or not the court abused its discretion, did not comply with proper legal rules under 330 in approving the fees. [00:04:25] Speaker 03: There's nothing before the... Far made a factual mistake for that matter. [00:04:28] Speaker 03: Pardon? [00:04:29] Speaker 03: Or made a factual error, right? [00:04:30] Speaker 04: Correct. [00:04:31] Speaker 04: There's nothing before the court to show that Judge Clarkson, in this matter, made a clearly erroneous factual finding. [00:04:40] Speaker 01: And don't we have in the record that the statutory fee for the trustee, the trustee only took half of what would have been available, is that right? [00:04:51] Speaker 04: The trustee took a, I can't remember the specific percentage, the trustee took a big hit on his statutory fee. [00:04:57] Speaker 04: The professionals, other than the accountant, my firm took a very large hit on our fees. [00:05:04] Speaker 04: So, notwithstanding the fact that the court approved the total amount due to us, we only received a portion of what was due to us. [00:05:13] Speaker 01: That was a self-inflicted hit, right? [00:05:16] Speaker 01: It wasn't the judge that did it. [00:05:17] Speaker 01: You applied for less than [00:05:19] Speaker 01: It's self administered. [00:05:22] Speaker 04: Yes, so that the trustee said we only have X amount of dollars. [00:05:27] Speaker 04: We can only divvy up this amount of money. [00:05:29] Speaker 04: Are you agreeable to a reduction of your fees and therefore we got paid in full to the to the reduction? [00:05:37] Speaker 04: We did the math. [00:05:41] Speaker 04: So at this point. [00:05:45] Speaker 04: There's nothing but the order approving the courts that the court's order approving our fees. [00:05:51] Speaker 04: We would submit that the appellate hasn't. [00:05:56] Speaker 04: Hasn't proven their their position that the court aired in any matter and. [00:06:03] Speaker 04: that this court should affirm Judge Clarkson's ruling approving the final fees. [00:06:08] Speaker 04: I know I have nine minutes left, but without having an ability to respond to somebody's arguments, I don't want to waste your time. [00:06:16] Speaker 03: Well, let me ask you this. [00:06:17] Speaker 03: Is the proper disposition a dismissal for lack of standing or just a firm? [00:06:24] Speaker 04: Lack of standing would be a dismissal. [00:06:26] Speaker 04: That's what I mean. [00:06:27] Speaker 04: If the court finds that there is a lack of standing, then I think the court would approve it. [00:06:31] Speaker 03: Are you arguing for one or the other? [00:06:33] Speaker 04: that if the court believes that they're standing, then I would argue that there should be an affirmance of the judge ruling. [00:06:41] Speaker 04: If the court finds that there is no standing, I think dismissal because there's no jurisdiction to make a reading affirming the court's decision. [00:06:50] Speaker 04: And unless the court has any further questions, I would submit the remainder of my time with my brief. [00:06:58] Speaker 02: Okay, any other questions? [00:07:01] Speaker 02: Okay, all right. [00:07:02] Speaker 02: Thank you very much, Ms. [00:07:03] Speaker 02: Perry. [00:07:03] Speaker 02: I assume that we will be, the matter is submitted and we'll be producing a written decision promptly. [00:07:08] Speaker 04: Thank you, Your Honors. [00:07:09] Speaker 02: Thank you.