[00:00:00] Speaker 01: Last case, I think, right? [00:00:02] Speaker 00: Go ahead, please. [00:00:04] Speaker 00: Next, we have in Ray Tucker, Fred Tucker appellant appearing pro se, and Jan Chilton appearing for appellee. [00:00:15] Speaker 01: Okay, Mr. Tucker, good afternoon. [00:00:18] Speaker 01: Would you like to save a little time to speak after Mr. Chilton speaks a few minutes of your 15 minutes? [00:00:24] Speaker 03: I didn't understand you. [00:00:26] Speaker 03: I'm sorry. [00:00:26] Speaker 01: Did you want to reserve? [00:00:28] Speaker 01: You'll have a total of 15 minutes. [00:00:29] Speaker 01: If you want to take part of that 15 minutes and save it for after Mr. Chilton, you could do that. [00:00:34] Speaker 01: You may have heard other lawyers take three minutes, five minutes, for example. [00:00:38] Speaker 01: You want to do that? [00:00:39] Speaker 03: No, I would like to. [00:00:41] Speaker 03: Before we get started, I would like to ask the court for a continuous on this matter for [00:00:54] Speaker 03: because of my medical conditions and the fact that I just received some information from the other party and I've been a bankruptcy case. [00:01:07] Speaker 03: I don't know if you're aware of it. [00:01:10] Speaker 01: Let me stop you. [00:01:11] Speaker 01: Let's go ahead, Madam Clerk, and start the clock. [00:01:13] Speaker 01: You go ahead and make that presentation, Mr. Tucker. [00:01:16] Speaker 01: Go ahead, please. [00:01:18] Speaker 03: Are you speaking to me? [00:01:20] Speaker 01: Yes. [00:01:20] Speaker 01: Go ahead, Mr. Tucker, please. [00:01:21] Speaker 03: I just found out that [00:01:24] Speaker 03: My bankruptcy case was dismissed, and we are in negotiation to get that matter back on calendar, the attorney that was handling that for me. [00:01:42] Speaker 03: And the reason [00:01:54] Speaker 03: That's the reason why I'm asking for a contingency this year because the person that was supposed to help me with this year, he came up with some problems. [00:02:12] Speaker 03: So my notes and things that I was going to present to the court, I don't have that. [00:02:19] Speaker 03: and also the matter of the other party, just email me some information about... I would just like a continuance on this here for three months. [00:02:47] Speaker 01: We'll have to discuss that after we conclude. [00:02:51] Speaker 01: I think it's unlikely, it takes some effort to get everybody together to do these hearings. [00:02:56] Speaker 01: So we're very reluctant to give continuances. [00:02:59] Speaker 01: And we also have everybody's briefs. [00:03:00] Speaker 01: We've read what you filed. [00:03:02] Speaker 01: So we think we're pretty familiar with your case and the record. [00:03:06] Speaker 01: So if there's anything else you'd like to tell us today, go ahead. [00:03:08] Speaker 01: We'll think about giving a continuance. [00:03:10] Speaker 03: I think it's unlikely though. [00:03:14] Speaker 03: of the appeal was the fact that the party's chase bank was not served and that because the motion for relief from stay is a contested matter and under rule [00:03:44] Speaker 03: 9014, it said it must be served pursuant to Boo number 7004B. [00:03:51] Speaker 03: George Zillow, in another matter, in 2013, denied Bank of America requests for release from automatic stage. [00:04:14] Speaker 03: under the same reasons because Bank of America did not give proper notice. [00:04:27] Speaker 03: So that's in the court. [00:04:32] Speaker 02: Mr. Tucker, can I ask you just a question? [00:04:34] Speaker 02: Could I ask you? [00:04:35] Speaker 02: It's my understanding that despite that objection, a sale has already occurred of the property. [00:04:44] Speaker 02: and it was transferred to a third party, not affiliated with the bank. [00:04:49] Speaker 02: Mr. Jones is now the owner of that property. [00:04:52] Speaker 02: Are you aware of that? [00:04:55] Speaker 03: Could you repeat that? [00:04:57] Speaker 03: Hold on, let me turn off the mic. [00:05:01] Speaker 02: Okay, go ahead. [00:05:04] Speaker 02: Yeah. [00:05:04] Speaker 02: You made this objection to the bankruptcy court that there was improper service on one of the lien holders and that the sale shouldn't go forward. [00:05:13] Speaker 02: But the bankruptcy court went ahead and authorized, entered the 364D order, and the PNC went ahead and sold the property. [00:05:23] Speaker 02: And the property is now purchased by another man, a man named Mr. Jones. [00:05:28] Speaker 02: He's the owner of the property by virtue of a deed that was transferred to him after the sale was conducted. [00:05:34] Speaker 02: Are you aware of that? [00:05:35] Speaker 03: Yes, that matters in Superior Court now. [00:05:39] Speaker 02: Okay. [00:05:39] Speaker 02: Number two is you don't live at the property any longer, do you? [00:05:43] Speaker 03: Yes. [00:05:45] Speaker 02: You do still live at the property? [00:05:46] Speaker 03: Yes. [00:05:48] Speaker 02: So you're still in possession even though Mr. Jones is the owner of the property? [00:05:52] Speaker 03: Yes. [00:05:53] Speaker 03: That matter, like I was speaking, that matter is in Superior Court, downtown Los Angeles. [00:06:03] Speaker 03: A matter was filed on that. [00:06:06] Speaker 03: I think it was [00:06:11] Speaker 03: in November of last year because of the fact that there were some illegal matters that were done by the trustee concerning the sale of the property. [00:06:41] Speaker 03: doing the sale of the property, there were some things that were done that was not proper. [00:06:58] Speaker 03: That's what's going on in that particular case now. [00:07:04] Speaker 03: But given the fact that Chase is a [00:07:11] Speaker 03: a secure creditor, they should have been served to protect their inches because they got wiped out. [00:07:23] Speaker 03: And I'm dealing with that now. [00:07:26] Speaker 03: Also, I'm dealing with that now also. [00:07:29] Speaker 03: So only my only [00:07:40] Speaker 03: I see that the court especially, I think it's the district of Arizona. [00:07:53] Speaker 03: I think you have spent some time on this case reading it, going over it. [00:08:03] Speaker 03: And I appreciate that. [00:08:05] Speaker 03: But it's been going on a little while now. [00:08:09] Speaker 03: PNC attorneys have concealed information in order to get the demur in the first place. [00:08:21] Speaker 03: And I'm dealing with that also now. [00:08:24] Speaker 03: But I'm not trying to make excuses. [00:08:27] Speaker 03: We have been in the property for 27, 28 years, 28 years before this matter came up. [00:08:38] Speaker 03: and the property would have been paid off in three years if we'd have been in 2018. [00:08:47] Speaker 03: That's when all this came up in 2015. [00:08:49] Speaker 03: I don't know if you're aware of that. [00:08:52] Speaker 03: But in any event, the whole thing back and forth that the judge in this particular case [00:09:12] Speaker 03: gave the release some state, and the other party was not served, and he had did this on another matter. [00:09:24] Speaker 03: And that's basically the argument that we are going with, and that [00:09:39] Speaker 03: the bankruptcy case is going to be put back on calendar. [00:09:47] Speaker 03: That's what the attorney is working on now. [00:09:51] Speaker 01: Okay. [00:09:53] Speaker 01: Thank you. [00:09:53] Speaker 01: Mr. Chilton, go ahead, please. [00:10:03] Speaker 00: Thank you, Your Honors. [00:10:04] Speaker 00: Good afternoon. [00:10:05] Speaker 00: Jan Shilton, Severson and Worson, representing PNC Bank. [00:10:11] Speaker 00: This matter is moot. [00:10:15] Speaker 00: The Bankruptcy Court has dismissed the underlying bankruptcy case. [00:10:21] Speaker 00: This morning, I filed a motion to dismiss the appeal as moot on that basis. [00:10:27] Speaker 01: Doesn't the order provide for in-rem relief? [00:10:32] Speaker 01: Yes, it does. [00:10:34] Speaker 01: So that continues beyond the dismissal of the bankruptcy case, right? [00:10:38] Speaker 00: Well, no, because of the, pardon me, because of the fact that the property has been sold. [00:10:46] Speaker 00: I mean, in rem relief only works if there's a rem around. [00:10:50] Speaker 01: Right. [00:10:52] Speaker 01: But what about Mr. Tucker? [00:10:53] Speaker 01: He says he's still in possession of the property. [00:10:55] Speaker 01: What about that? [00:10:57] Speaker 00: Well, that's something that will be sorted out in state court, presumably, in an unlawful detainer action, but. [00:11:05] Speaker 01: Well, what happens if Mr. Tucker files another case, for example, now and says he has an interest in the property by virtue of his possession and his right to challenge the foreclosure, et cetera? [00:11:19] Speaker 01: Would your position be that the NRIM relief would apply in another case filed by Mr. Tucker? [00:11:25] Speaker 00: Well, I don't think at this point, PNC has any interest in the property. [00:11:30] Speaker 00: It sold its, you know, at the foreclosure sale, the lien of its deed of trust was wiped out by the sale. [00:11:41] Speaker 00: So at this point, it wouldn't be a creditor in a future bankruptcy. [00:11:49] Speaker 01: I mean, if I were in Mr. Jones shoes, the buyer's shoes, I'd sure use that in rem order. [00:11:54] Speaker 01: Right. [00:11:56] Speaker 00: Well, that may be something that Mr. Jones would try to do, but Mr. Jones isn't before you and this appeal doesn't involve him. [00:12:08] Speaker 00: But it does involve the NREM aspect of the order. [00:12:11] Speaker 00: That's the point I'm making. [00:12:12] Speaker 00: It does. [00:12:13] Speaker 00: And if that's enough to keep this appeal in court, fine. [00:12:21] Speaker 00: We ought to win on the merits. [00:12:24] Speaker 00: The basic point that Mr. Tucker has been making is that there was an error in service on [00:12:34] Speaker 00: on JP Morgan Chase. [00:12:38] Speaker 00: The Bankruptcy Court so found. [00:12:41] Speaker 00: We don't contest that. [00:12:43] Speaker 00: But the Bankruptcy Court also correctly held that Mr. Tucker has no standing to raise that issue. [00:12:50] Speaker 00: And we've cited the Ninth Circuit opinion that supports that view at pages 10 and 11 of our brief. [00:12:59] Speaker 00: As to the other aspect of it, the propriety of the relief from stay. [00:13:05] Speaker 00: First of all, you've heard no argument about it today. [00:13:09] Speaker 00: And secondly, you're governed by the abuse of discretion standard in reviewing that. [00:13:17] Speaker 00: And here you have a history of [00:13:20] Speaker 00: repeated litigation, repeated bankruptcy filings to avoid foreclosure. [00:13:29] Speaker 00: All of that was properly taken into account by the bankruptcy judge in entering his order under both D and G of 362. [00:13:45] Speaker 00: There's, I mean, he applied the correct law. [00:13:48] Speaker 00: He judged the facts in a certainly reasonable manner and therefore didn't abuse his discretion. [00:13:57] Speaker 00: And therefore you should affirm. [00:14:01] Speaker 01: Okay. [00:14:02] Speaker 01: Thank you. [00:14:02] Speaker 01: Any questions from the panel? [00:14:05] Speaker 01: Okay. [00:14:06] Speaker 01: Mr. Tucker, you've got some time left. [00:14:08] Speaker 01: Do you'd like to respond to anything Mr. Shilton says? [00:14:10] Speaker 01: If you want to, it's up to you. [00:14:12] Speaker 03: Yeah. [00:14:13] Speaker 03: He mentioned unlawful detainer. [00:14:15] Speaker 03: They tried that, and the court threw that out. [00:14:21] Speaker 03: It was unsuccessful. [00:14:23] Speaker 03: As far as the matters at the state court, including PMC and the attorney that handled it, Wolf, and also Kevin Jones, [00:14:41] Speaker 03: other entities that committed fraudulent act to obtain the property. [00:14:53] Speaker 03: But I'm still in the property and the matter [00:14:58] Speaker 03: that's in the state court is still going forward. [00:15:05] Speaker 03: My only argument is, excuse me, not my only argument, the only thing that I can think of without the proper notes that my friend was going to help me with is that [00:15:24] Speaker 03: before the bankruptcy is going to be put back on calendar. [00:15:39] Speaker 03: Because of the fact that they wanted me, I got a note from him just recently. [00:15:46] Speaker 03: The trustee is going to stipulate [00:15:54] Speaker 03: We have, it wanted me to change the plan and I just have to sign the documents. [00:15:59] Speaker 03: I have the documents here. [00:16:01] Speaker 03: I just have to sign the documents to get it over to them. [00:16:05] Speaker 03: And the trustee is gonna stipulate to reinstate the paper case. [00:16:18] Speaker 01: Okay, well, thank you very much. [00:16:20] Speaker 01: Is Tucker we will talk about the continuous I gotta say I don't think we'll give it to you, but if we do set another date for oral argument, you'll certainly hear from us. [00:16:30] Speaker 01: Otherwise, the matter submitted and thank you both for your arguments. [00:16:34] Speaker 01: That's the end of that's the end of our calendar. [00:16:36] Speaker 01: So courts and recess. [00:16:38] Speaker 01: Thank you very much. [00:16:39] Speaker 00: Thank you. [00:16:40] Speaker 01: Thank you.