[00:00:01] Speaker 01: Case number 14-5156, Ahmed B. Narendan, Appellant vs. Charles F. Bolden, Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space Administration. [00:00:12] Speaker 01: Mr. Roger Chusky for the Appellant, Mr. Lawrence for the Appellate. [00:00:42] Speaker 00: Thank you, Your Honor. [00:00:43] Speaker 00: May it please the Court. [00:00:44] Speaker 00: Joshua Rogoszewski for Amad Nuriden, who urges the Court to reverse the judgments of the District Court dismissing his claims. [00:00:52] Speaker 00: I'm endeavoring to reserve two of my 10 minutes for rebuttal. [00:00:55] Speaker 00: Although Mr. Nuriden's claims sound an employment discrimination law, the principal issue on his appeal is whether the District Court overstepped the bounds in the summary judgment process. [00:01:06] Speaker 00: Because Mr. Neridan provided more than sufficient evidence for a reasonable jury to find for him on his Title VII claims, summary judgment on liability was unavailable in this case. [00:01:16] Speaker 00: As this court has done in similar cases, it should reverse. [00:01:20] Speaker 00: The fulcrum of the evidence supporting Mr. Nerdon's claims is a September 18, 2001 email. [00:01:27] Speaker 00: This is the Joint Appendix, page 308. [00:01:30] Speaker 00: It's an email that is among high-level HR officials at NASA, the HR director and his supervisor. [00:01:37] Speaker 00: And in that email, which is about what NASA refers to, pejoratively, Mr. Nerdon as their favorite subject, [00:01:45] Speaker 00: It discusses a plot that NASA was beginning to devise. [00:01:52] Speaker 00: Legal counsel asked if CP, that's headquarters HR division, could find him a job and make an offer to close off the OWCP claim, expecting he won't take it and therefore lose his case at OWCP. [00:02:07] Speaker 00: The offer of a job is a tactical ploy to chip away at all his complaints. [00:02:12] Speaker 00: This email is striking for three reasons. [00:02:15] Speaker 00: First, it's direct evidence of NASA's retaliatory animus against Mr. Neridan. [00:02:21] Speaker 00: It describes attempts by NASA to erode Mr. Neridan's OWCP, his disability benefits. [00:02:28] Speaker 00: And it connects that plan with his EO complaints. [00:02:32] Speaker 00: It's designed to chip away at his complaints. [00:02:34] Speaker 00: That's precisely the type of conduct that Title VII is designed to curb. [00:02:39] Speaker 00: Second, notwithstanding this, the district court has nary a reference to this piece of evidence in its 2004 summary judgment opinion. [00:02:47] Speaker 00: That silence is inexplicable. [00:02:50] Speaker 00: And the third is that the email goes on to describe, or the email string and the email itself goes on to describe other things that NASA was considering, including whether to place Mr. Neridan at another division within NASA. [00:03:02] Speaker 00: And in that email, NASA says that it doesn't want to place Mr. Neridan in another division because, quote, it doesn't want to force another problem down another division's throat. [00:03:13] Speaker 00: Now, that type of evidence is very similar to the type of evidence that resulted in the reversal of the summary judgment. [00:03:19] Speaker 00: in part O. Croneman versus Donovan. [00:03:21] Speaker 00: In that case, the evidence in play was described the employee as a problem and also described not wanting to put that employee in another division because it didn't want to shift that problem to another part of it. [00:03:34] Speaker 00: Now, importantly, the tactical ploy is the fulcrum, but you have to look at also what came before. [00:03:39] Speaker 00: And I think, as we tried to describe in our brief, really the sequence of events from 1998 through Mr. Nerdon's termination in 2004 is an interconnected sequence of events in which Mr. Nerdon's complaining about what's happening to him at NASA, and NASA is then retaliating against him in the form of various things, whether it's... The email went to which one of his claims? [00:04:03] Speaker 00: The email goes ultimately to his termination claim, Your Honor, but it also reads back into the prior conduct. [00:04:11] Speaker 00: And if I can, I'd like to try to explain that. [00:04:14] Speaker 00: Mr. Nerden was out of the office at that point on medical leave. [00:04:18] Speaker 00: He was on medical leave because, in his doctor's opinion, an opinion that the senior medical director of NASA accepted in June 2000, that the stress and anxiety caused by the conditions under which he was laboring at NASA required him to be out of work. [00:04:33] Speaker 00: The tactical ploy is a part of NASA's trying to come to terms with what to do with Mr. Nurnan. [00:04:40] Speaker 00: They had an obligation, we contend, to return him. [00:04:42] Speaker 03: This is because of his being on medical leave? [00:04:47] Speaker 00: That's correct, Your Honor. [00:04:48] Speaker 03: And so that goes to the rehabilitation failure to accommodate claim, plus the rehabilitation retaliation claim? [00:04:58] Speaker 00: It does go to those two. [00:05:01] Speaker 00: Those claims were dismissed by the district court on Rule 12b-6. [00:05:05] Speaker 03: There's no argument in the brief dealing with the retaliation under the Rehabilitation Act. [00:05:14] Speaker 00: I think we have a footnote that addresses that, but because those claims were dismissed on the pleadings, the principal focus of the appeal has been on the Title VII claims. [00:05:27] Speaker 00: Although they are distinct avenues, they're avenues to the same relief. [00:05:33] Speaker 00: trying to hold NASA accountable for improper retaliation against Mr. Murdoch, whether it's because of his alleged disability or whether it's because of his EEO activity. [00:05:45] Speaker 00: It's just a question of whether you're going down the Rehab Act Avenue or the Title VII Act Avenue. [00:05:49] Speaker 03: Or maybe it's because he's a pain in the neck. [00:05:51] Speaker 00: That's certainly NASA's position, Your Honor. [00:05:54] Speaker 00: And NASA is more than entitled to present that at trial. [00:05:57] Speaker 00: The question before the district court in 2014 was whether Rule 56 allowed the district court to say that as a matter of law, NASA could not be held liable under Title VII. [00:06:08] Speaker 00: And as this court has made clear in cases such as Acre versus Washington Hospital Center, George versus Levitt, Wilson v. Cox, [00:06:16] Speaker 00: What a plaintiff has to show at the summary judgment stage is that there is enough evidence from which a reasonable jury could find for him. [00:06:23] Speaker 00: Frankly, the fact that the district court looked at much of this same evidence and came to that conclusion in 2009, we think demonstrates strongly that the Rule 56 standard... What were the material facts in dispute under your view? [00:06:37] Speaker 00: Well, there are several. [00:06:38] Speaker 00: There is the dispute about whether Mr. Nerding was a good employee or not. [00:06:44] Speaker 00: We have NASA's employment records and their reviews that are negative, and at the same time, you have his reviews from the National Science Foundation in 1999 that are positive. [00:06:56] Speaker 00: In George versus Levitt, that type of factual dispute [00:06:59] Speaker 00: allowed the reversal of summary judgment. [00:07:02] Speaker 00: You have a dispute of fact about whether NASA's conduct was pretextual. [00:07:10] Speaker 00: NASA says that it terminated Mr. Neridan because of his medical inability to do his job. [00:07:15] Speaker 00: However, when you look at that stated basis, it is in conflict with the medical opinions of Mr. Norton's doctors. [00:07:24] Speaker 00: And there's even a disputed fact about what the valid medical opinion is of Mr. Norton. [00:07:28] Speaker 00: You've got several medical opinions that say that he couldn't go back to NASA at all, but you have an overwhelming amount of medical evidence that suggests that he could go back to NASA under the right set of circumstances. [00:07:39] Speaker 00: So, I mean, those are examples of the types of disputes that a jury, if they were resolved in Mr. Naird's favor, could allow a reasonable jury to find for Mr. Naird on his Title VII claims. [00:07:53] Speaker 00: I'm not standing here today saying that Mr. Norton should have obtained some re-judgment on liability. [00:07:58] Speaker 00: We didn't move for some re-judgment on liability. [00:08:00] Speaker 00: There's evidence on both sides in this case. [00:08:03] Speaker 00: But that is precisely the type of situation in which the jury is called upon to resolve those types of factual disputes. [00:08:10] Speaker 00: Now, to be frank, because of the district court's failure to properly credit Mr. Neridan's pro se allegations of the Rehab Act claim, we think those claims should be reinstated. [00:08:21] Speaker 00: We think that's a relatively easy decision. [00:08:24] Speaker 00: The harder question is the summary judgment on Title VII. [00:08:27] Speaker 00: We think that there was more than enough evidence to support a jury verdict in Mr. Neridan's favor. [00:08:33] Speaker 00: And as a result, those claims should be reinstated and set for trial. [00:08:43] Speaker 00: Please reverse. [00:09:03] Speaker 02: May it please the Court, Craig Lawrence, the United States Attorney for Appellee Bolden, Ms. [00:09:10] Speaker 02: McBarnett, is no longer with our office. [00:09:12] Speaker 02: I am therefore making the argument. [00:09:15] Speaker 02: I think based on appellant's argument, there are two things I should point out at the outset, and one is on the Rehabilitation Act claim, [00:09:24] Speaker 02: It is clear from this Court's decision in Duncan v. Metro that the second amendment complaint fails to plead adequately a claim that he was excluded from a broad range of jobs and therefore was [00:09:41] Speaker 02: protected, should have been determined to be handicapped and protected. [00:09:47] Speaker 02: Indeed, the second amendment complaint reflects that he was not excluded from a broad range of jobs by his disability because he claimed in part that he sought a comparable position. [00:10:00] Speaker 02: If you look at page 53 of the Joint Appendix, I think it's paragraph 167, he sought a comparable position. [00:10:08] Speaker 04: But it seems that what the district court did was [00:10:11] Speaker 04: Once it found that it didn't believe that there was a Rehab Act claim, it just, without any real discussion, just dismissed the retaliation claim based on the Rehab Act. [00:10:24] Speaker 02: Well, if he doesn't adequately show that he suffered a disability and was precluded from a broad range of jobs, there's no place to go with a Rehabilitation Act. [00:10:37] Speaker 04: So if the employer [00:10:39] Speaker 04: says this guy complained that he's not being accommodated because of his disability and that's a completely bogus claim. [00:10:51] Speaker 04: I'm going to fire him because I don't like people making bogus claims against me. [00:10:58] Speaker 04: and that's what's in the record, then there's no retaliation claim? [00:11:02] Speaker 02: Not on the basis of the Rehabilitation Act. [00:11:05] Speaker 02: The court properly looked at it and analyzed it in accordance with the Duncan case and concluded that it fails to state a claim. [00:11:17] Speaker 02: And his claim that [00:11:21] Speaker 02: He doesn't have a specific claim that he was terminated on bogus grounds. [00:11:29] Speaker 02: Basically, the termination claim is a Title VII claim that he makes. [00:11:34] Speaker 04: Then he alleged that under his retaliation for the Rehabilitation Act that all of these things were done. [00:11:45] Speaker 04: not just a termination, but that these other adverse actions were done to retaliate against him? [00:11:51] Speaker 02: No, the only claim that he makes under his Rehabilitation Act claim is a wrongful termination. [00:11:57] Speaker 02: All of the other claims that he makes, if you take a look at [00:12:03] Speaker 03: The brief, as I mentioned, doesn't even make an argument that there was retaliation under the Rehabilitation Act. [00:12:12] Speaker 02: That's correct, Your Honor. [00:12:13] Speaker 02: I mean, his claim. [00:12:15] Speaker 03: He made the claim. [00:12:16] Speaker 03: It's not even clear his complaint makes that claim, because what he alleges under the Rehabilitation Act supposedly is retaliation is exactly what he alleges under the Rehabilitation Act without the retaliation. [00:12:30] Speaker 03: That's correct. [00:12:31] Speaker 02: And the district court correctly resolved that based on this court's decisions, the Supreme Court's decision in Sutton against United Airlines, based on the pleadings. [00:12:40] Speaker 02: And it was correctly resolved. [00:12:43] Speaker 02: And if you turn to his wrongful termination claim, that's basically a title Sutton claim. [00:12:51] Speaker 02: If you take a look at 379 and 380 of the Joint Appendix, it basically explains why he was terminated and explains it. [00:13:04] Speaker 02: And if you look also at page 417 of the Joint Appendix, [00:13:11] Speaker 02: of the Egbert Declaration reflects that it was the accepted practice to terminate an employee who had been on extended workers' compensation and had no definite date and no expectation of when that person was going to be able to return to work. [00:13:27] Speaker 02: So what the record reflects is that the agency followed accepted practices and that the termination was based on the extended leave [00:13:39] Speaker 03: One thing I'm not clear about is if someone is on a workman's comp and gets terminated, does that change the amount of money they receive monthly? [00:13:51] Speaker 03: He was receiving, I read some places, basically for four years and it's three quarters of his. [00:13:57] Speaker 02: Yes, it was less than full pay and if he is then terminated, [00:14:03] Speaker 02: The short answer, Judge Randolph, is I'm not sure how that affects his workers' compensation, but at some point... It affects the agency because then it opens a slot up. [00:14:14] Speaker 02: Yes. [00:14:14] Speaker 02: I mean, that's what the agency said it was looking for. [00:14:17] Speaker 02: It had been a substantial period of time. [00:14:19] Speaker 02: That slot had not been filled. [00:14:21] Speaker 02: And that's reflected in the termination notice, I believe, and in the explanation on page 417 of the joint appendix. [00:14:32] Speaker 02: And under the circumstances, the district court carefully went through the allegations. [00:14:40] Speaker 02: made an appropriate judgment, pointed out that the plaintiff did not dispute the lengthy absence from work. [00:14:49] Speaker 02: He did not complain in determination that any comparators had been treated differently, although he claimed that he was seeking... [00:15:03] Speaker 04: The email that your colleagues started out talking about, which you don't say much about in your brief, in which the district court didn't say much about in its opinion, was that we're not really going to do a real job search to try to find him something that will be a good match for him in 2001, because we want to get rid of him. [00:15:27] Speaker 04: And then when [00:15:29] Speaker 04: nothing is found for him and he's on workers' comp and he stays on workers' comp, then that's used as the reason to terminate. [00:15:37] Speaker 02: Well, there's no indication that that email chain had anything to do with the workers' comp area and the extended leave. [00:15:50] Speaker 02: And we would just note that on the extended leave, the record reflects that he got all the [00:15:55] Speaker 02: donated leaves over some 700 hours worth of donated leaves that had been contributed. [00:16:04] Speaker 02: But there's no connection between that email and the worker's comp period and the ultimate determination. [00:16:12] Speaker 04: And the record does reflect that that's a... Why isn't there when the termination letter refers to the 2001 actions? [00:16:20] Speaker 04: The letter itself says, [00:16:23] Speaker 04: You know, when considering this, we look back to in 2001, you couldn't be accommodated. [00:16:29] Speaker 02: Well, in 2001, he was off on medical leave for a substantial period of time. [00:16:37] Speaker 02: It was after that substantial period that he went on workers' comp. [00:16:43] Speaker 02: And he had not been performing his position for that period of time. [00:16:47] Speaker 02: And there's no connection. [00:16:49] Speaker 02: I mean, I think the district court pointed out at one point that one of the emails at issue was over eight months prior to the [00:17:02] Speaker 02: ultimate determination and termination, the notice of termination, and didn't connect the dots between the email and the termination. [00:17:12] Speaker 02: And on this record, the district court correctly resolved what was before it, noting in many instances that there had not been a proffer of evidence to raise a factual dispute. [00:17:25] Speaker 02: But on the termination, [00:17:26] Speaker 02: We have the termination notice. [00:17:28] Speaker 02: We have the fact that there was the regular practice for agencies to make that determination, and under those circumstances... So explain this to me. [00:17:40] Speaker 04: You say that the policy is if you're out on workers' comp for more than a year, then the policy is to terminate you, right? [00:17:48] Speaker 02: Well, I don't know that there's a specifically [00:17:52] Speaker 02: specific period, but a lengthy period of time. [00:17:55] Speaker 02: That's the ground. [00:17:58] Speaker 02: And there's no indication of a date on which you'll be able to return. [00:18:05] Speaker 02: And here you have a lengthy leave, lengthy workers comp and coupled with no indication, no representation from either the plaintiff or his doctors about when he would be able to return to work. [00:18:22] Speaker 02: And it was at that point [00:18:24] Speaker 02: that the notice of termination was sent, and at that point, and that was the regular governmental practice under similar circumstances, and there are no facts to contradict that declaration and the standard practice. [00:18:42] Speaker 02: And in the judgment, in the view of the district court, and we believe it was correct, the Rehabilitation Act claims were properly dismissed and the termination and other Title VII claims failed based on the record and judgment was properly entered. [00:19:05] Speaker 02: for NASA based on the lack of disputed facts that would warrant a trial. [00:19:14] Speaker 03: And we urge that the judgment of the district court... We've heard about the Title VII retaliation point. [00:19:20] Speaker 02: Well, the major portion there was a failure of a comparator. [00:19:26] Speaker 02: I mean, his only comparator that he submitted was Gary Gans, who was working in a different division. [00:19:31] Speaker 02: If you take a look at the [00:19:37] Speaker 02: work plans, the responsibilities of each. [00:19:42] Speaker 02: Gary Gans is at Joint Appendix 191 to 196, and plaintiffs is at 198 to 201. [00:19:50] Speaker 02: Gary Gans was a management and information specialist [00:19:54] Speaker 02: He did agency-wide administration on the agency computer information system. [00:20:00] Speaker 02: No similar supervisors. [00:20:02] Speaker 02: Plaintiff was an education specialist in the education division responsible for agency graduate fellowship programs, and he developed plans for evaluating university-level fellowship programs. [00:20:18] Speaker 02: No similarity. [00:20:20] Speaker 02: real comparison at all. [00:20:22] Speaker 02: And under those circumstances, the district court correctly determined that that was not a... But you didn't need comparators for some of these claims. [00:20:28] Speaker 04: Like things like, you know, whether he was given properly denied a performance, I'm sorry, I guess an award for his performance. [00:20:46] Speaker 04: Like the year that he, I guess it was 1999, the year that he spent mostly on detail. [00:20:51] Speaker 02: Well, the explanation was that he had not been in the office to be evaluated, that he had been out on sick leave or other leave for a substantial period and came back and immediately went to [00:21:09] Speaker 02: National Science Foundation. [00:21:11] Speaker 04: Here's a problem that I had when I was reading the government's brief in this case, was that the government's brief seemed to repeatedly not address or even mention evidence that was beneficial to the plaintiff. [00:21:30] Speaker 04: I mean, I know that the government likes their evidence more than the other side's evidence. [00:21:34] Speaker 04: Everybody likes their evidence more than the other side's evidence. [00:21:38] Speaker 04: But it just seemed like there were a number of instances where just contrary evidence wasn't discussed at all. [00:21:47] Speaker 04: In one of them, one example that was pretty glaring was about this whole issue of that 1999 period. [00:21:59] Speaker 04: And the citation that the government made in its brief was that, well, [00:22:04] Speaker 04: There was no, the other agency has to fund the award. [00:22:09] Speaker 04: Yes. [00:22:10] Speaker 04: And it's cited to a letter that didn't say anything at all about whether the other agency funded it or not. [00:22:19] Speaker 04: And, you know, there are just other examples. [00:22:22] Speaker 04: The whole thing of him being placed on AWOL, [00:22:26] Speaker 04: And there basically being an acknowledgement that that was improper, but we'll just let it stand. [00:22:32] Speaker 04: There were lots of things like that that were harmful pieces of evidence that your brief just doesn't talk about. [00:22:42] Speaker 04: I just found that unhelpful. [00:22:44] Speaker 02: Well, I apologize for that, Your Honor. [00:22:47] Speaker 02: But I will note that, as the district court pointed out, on the designation of AWOL, [00:22:56] Speaker 02: the point of proffered no evidence that raised an inference of discrimination. [00:23:00] Speaker 02: And the ultimately, uh, determination was based in part on what about retaliation? [00:23:08] Speaker 02: Uh, well, there was no evidence. [00:23:11] Speaker 02: He proffered no evidence. [00:23:12] Speaker 02: It was retaliation, only a general claim [00:23:14] Speaker 02: that it was discriminatory and retaliatory animus. [00:23:18] Speaker 02: And ultimately, the agency, I think, proffered that the 5 CFR Section 630.1208 I made that an appropriate determination. [00:23:31] Speaker 02: and that he had been, by September 2000, the district court observed that he'd been out for several months on sick leave and failed to provide the appropriate medical documentation and the regulation required [00:23:46] Speaker 02: advanced sick leave to be approved. [00:23:49] Speaker 04: Hadn't documentation been provided in June that NASA said was acceptable, but right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing? [00:23:57] Speaker 02: There was a miscommunication? [00:23:58] Speaker 02: To a limited extent, but in the circumstances, I think the district court correctly resolved what was based on the record and certainly appropriately explained it. [00:24:09] Speaker 02: Resolved what was resolved? [00:24:11] Speaker 02: The factual dispute? [00:24:12] Speaker 02: That the AWOL determination had not been [00:24:16] Speaker 02: It was not either discriminatory or retaliatory, based on the record before it, and based on the CFR. [00:24:27] Speaker 02: And under the circumstances, and you can, there's a, NASA followed the headquarters time and attendance leave reporting guide, and that, it was not in the Joint Appendix, but it's exhibit C to, [00:24:46] Speaker 02: I think it's at 199, ECF 199. [00:24:53] Speaker 02: No, it's not. [00:25:02] Speaker 02: I'm not sure where that is, but I know that it was exhibit C2. [00:25:07] Speaker 02: Let me see if I've got it here. [00:25:11] Speaker 02: exhibit C to ECF 217 in the reply to the opposition's emotional summary judgment. [00:25:19] Speaker 02: And that reflected that the NASA guide had been followed here. [00:25:25] Speaker 02: And we just, under the circumstances, in view of the district court's opinion and explanation, and based on this record, we submit that the district court correctly resolved both the Rehabilitation Act [00:25:37] Speaker 02: piece and dismissed it and the termination and the other title seven parts adequately explaining them based on the record before it at the time that I just make sure I understand what the government's position is with respect to retaliation. [00:25:51] Speaker 04: If an employee makes an EEO claim, um, let's say of racial discrimination and the agency [00:26:02] Speaker 04: the responsible people at the agency who are mentioned believe that that claim is unfounded. [00:26:09] Speaker 04: And let's just suppose for the sake of argument that it is unfounded. [00:26:14] Speaker 04: The agent, that the employee thinks that they did this bad thing to him because of his race, but they weren't really considering that. [00:26:26] Speaker 04: They were considering something else when they did, when they made that action. [00:26:31] Speaker 04: But nonetheless, so it was an unfounded EEO complaint, but the supervisor nonetheless decides that because he doesn't like the fact that this complaint has been made, [00:26:50] Speaker 04: he's going to take adverse action against the employee. [00:26:54] Speaker 04: Is it the government's position that if that's what's planned or that's what there is evidence to support at summary judgment that you would still grant summary judgment on the retaliation claim because the underlying EEO complaint was unfounded? [00:27:10] Speaker 02: No, no. [00:27:10] Speaker 02: In your hypothetical, [00:27:13] Speaker 02: if so long as the retaliatory animus is demonstrated and shown to be proximate to the adverse action that's at issue, that would state a retaliatory action that would be, so long as it's disputed, that would be actionable and triable by a jury. [00:27:35] Speaker 02: But the failure here was on the record [00:27:38] Speaker 02: and the failure to connect any and the retaliatory animus claims were rather vague and were not connected to the specific events that were pleaded in the complaint and based on the record the district court correctly made the determination without that kind of connection [00:28:00] Speaker 04: So email saying that this guy's a problem employee, we don't really want to find him a job somewhere else in the agency because we'll just be giving somebody else this problem. [00:28:14] Speaker 04: That couldn't even taken in the light most favorable to Mr. Nerudin be seen as retaliatory. [00:28:20] Speaker 02: It would be properly discounted if there is no connection by proximity to the action that is challenged. [00:28:29] Speaker 04: Your brief says that he was a serial filer of EEO complaints, that he filed them all the time, so there's certainly proximity and time. [00:28:38] Speaker 02: Well, but on the record before the district court, there was no connection for any of the specific claims that were [00:28:45] Speaker 02: challenged by the plaintiff and the district court. [00:28:49] Speaker 02: That was the problem that the district court had and the reason the district court resolved it the way it did was the lack of proximity to, not on all of them, but on a number of them, simply there was no connection to the action and the [00:29:11] Speaker 02: statement, if there was one or whatever, of discriminatory, allegedly discriminatory animus. [00:29:16] Speaker 02: And it was that proximity, a lack of it, and the connection, a lack of pleading the connection that animated the district court's decision, we think, quite correctly, based on the record before it. [00:29:29] Speaker 02: And we would urge for that reason that the judgment of the district court be affirmed. [00:29:38] Speaker 02: Thank you. [00:29:39] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:29:47] Speaker 00: The record contains more than adequate circumstantial evidence for the Title VII claims to go to trial. [00:29:53] Speaker 00: We know what Malcolm Phelps thought about Mr. Norton's EO activity. [00:29:57] Speaker 00: In a performance review, he called it a pile of bull and a crock of shit. [00:30:02] Speaker 00: That's Mr. Nerd and Supervisor, and that's his commentary on the EEO activity. [00:30:07] Speaker 00: Dr. Phelps is involved from 1998 through the tactical ploy discussion in 2001. [00:30:12] Speaker 00: If you look at JA 309. [00:30:14] Speaker 03: Did the agency defend the EEOC claims? [00:30:19] Speaker 00: I believe so. [00:30:19] Speaker 03: Before the EEOC? [00:30:21] Speaker 00: I believe so. [00:30:22] Speaker 03: And the EEOC ruled in favor of the agency? [00:30:27] Speaker 00: Actually, standing here, I don't know the answer to that, Your Honor. [00:30:30] Speaker 03: I suppose they did. [00:30:34] Speaker 00: I don't think that impacts the retaliation analysis. [00:30:37] Speaker 03: Well, doesn't it put in a different light the comment, although very colorful, that if they had said in the oral statement that these claims are frivolous, that's another way of saying it. [00:30:53] Speaker 03: And the EEOC agreed and said in NASA, so what's the significance of that? [00:31:00] Speaker 00: I think it remains a triable issue. [00:31:02] Speaker 00: It's up for the jury to decide what Dr. Phelps meant by that comment. [00:31:07] Speaker 00: And I think when you take Dr. Phelps' comment and you extend it through the adverse actions taken against Mr. Nernan in 1998, 1999, 2000, his rejection of the medical evidence, not just Dr. Conway's agreement with Mr. Nernan's doctors, but medical evidence provided later in June, in July, and in September. [00:31:26] Speaker 00: And notwithstanding that, he says, you know what? [00:31:28] Speaker 00: We're putting him on an AWOL. [00:31:30] Speaker 00: Doesn't matter. [00:31:31] Speaker 00: It would be very easy for a jury to infer that Dr. Phelps retained the animus that was expressed in the 1998 performance review. [00:31:40] Speaker 00: And Dr. Phelps is involved in the discussions about the tactical ploy. [00:31:44] Speaker 00: Another individual who's involved in those discussions is Mark Backen, and I see my time's expired. [00:31:49] Speaker 00: But if you look at the record, the record shows that Mr. Batkin was one of the individuals who recommended Mr. Nerdon's termination. [00:31:57] Speaker 00: There is enough circumstantial evidence, and there's direct evidence of animus in this case. [00:32:02] Speaker 00: This is not a case that should be resolved in summary judgment. [00:32:05] Speaker 00: This is a jury issue. [00:32:06] Speaker 00: You should go to trial. [00:32:07] Speaker 00: Please reverse. [00:32:07] Speaker 01: Thank you. [00:32:11] Speaker 01: The case will be submitted.