[00:00:02] Speaker 02: Case number 15-7055, Matthew August LaFondi, appellant versus District of Columbia. [00:00:08] Speaker 02: Mr. LaFondi for the appellant, Mr. Schiffley for the appellee. [00:00:18] Speaker 00: Good morning to the panel. [00:00:20] Speaker 00: If it please the court, I'm Matthew LaFondi. [00:00:22] Speaker 00: I am the appellant in this case. [00:00:24] Speaker 00: I reserve three minutes for rebuttal. [00:00:26] Speaker 00: Rule 56 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure is not a disfavorable procedural shortcut, but the principal tool by which factually insufficient claims or defenses may be isolated and prevented from going to trial with the intended unwarranted consumption of public and private resources. [00:00:45] Speaker 00: This is a key component of the federal rules as a whole and their goal of promoting the just, speedy, and inexpensive determination of their reaction, which of course is rule one. [00:00:57] Speaker 00: When a party makes factual allegations at summary judgment, in order for the rule one and rule 56 to remain effective, that party must necessarily be confined to those factual allegations as it proceeds to trial. [00:01:16] Speaker 00: the district courts must be mindful of the shifting burden of proof regarding governing motions under 56. [00:01:25] Speaker 00: And while the moving party initially bears the burden of proving the absence of a genuine issue of material facts, what the non-moving party has a burden of proof, the moving party need only prove those absence of evidence to support the non-parties case. [00:01:43] Speaker 00: In this regard, [00:01:45] Speaker 00: The District of Columbia makes an allegation that the appellant is terminated for emails. [00:01:54] Speaker 00: The appellant previously states that the litigation in the Griffith case is the cause. [00:02:01] Speaker 00: The District of Columbia countersets the emails. [00:02:04] Speaker 00: Under Heffernan, which came out subsequent to the dismissal of this case, [00:02:09] Speaker 00: It is not what the plaintiff believes is the motivation for his termination. [00:02:16] Speaker 00: But instead, it is what is the motivation of the government in acting against what is the protected speech. [00:02:26] Speaker 00: And in this instance, we have the district court [00:02:31] Speaker 00: aligning itself with what was stated in the original decision by this court in La Fondi and saying La Fondi is speaking about the same subject matter which this court found to be protected speech. [00:02:48] Speaker 00: I'm sorry, thank you. [00:02:49] Speaker 01: Let me interrupt you and ask you a question. [00:02:51] Speaker 01: Do you have your September 19th email in front of you? [00:02:55] Speaker 00: Thank you. [00:02:56] Speaker 01: Would you pull that out? [00:03:00] Speaker 01: I want to ask you a question about it. [00:03:02] Speaker 01: OK? [00:03:02] Speaker 00: You got it? [00:03:03] Speaker 00: OK. [00:03:04] Speaker 01: Just once. [00:03:07] Speaker 00: September 19. [00:03:09] Speaker 01: So the legal standard that I want you to have in mind when I ask you this question is, so even if an employee speaks as a citizen on a matter of public concern, the statement can still lose its First Amendment protection if, according to the court, the statement, quote, impairs discipline [00:03:28] Speaker 01: by superiors, or harmony among co-workers, or as a detrimental impact on close working relationships, right? [00:03:37] Speaker 01: That's the legal center. [00:03:38] Speaker 00: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:03:39] Speaker 00: That's certainly true. [00:03:39] Speaker 01: And we've said, and this court has said, this is especially important in the police department. [00:03:45] Speaker 01: So my question to you is that with respect to the September 19th email, can you explain to me why that email wouldn't offend that standard? [00:03:55] Speaker 01: That is, why that email, just reading the text of it, couldn't be viewed as [00:04:02] Speaker 01: impairing discipline by superiors or harmony among co-workers. [00:04:09] Speaker 01: Would you explain that to me? [00:04:12] Speaker 00: You have to understand the context. [00:04:15] Speaker 00: No, no, no. [00:04:16] Speaker 01: I asked you about the text of the email. [00:04:18] Speaker 01: Don't talk to me about context. [00:04:20] Speaker 01: Here, let me tell you what I mean. [00:04:22] Speaker 01: Here's what this says. [00:04:26] Speaker 01: You say in this that the person you're writing this to, your superior, is more often than not the most immediate cause of arbitrary and unwarranted discipline against reserve officers. [00:04:40] Speaker 01: You say you're responsible for the arbitrary promotions process in which you promoted a convoy of persons to your personal liking. [00:04:48] Speaker 01: I could go on and on, but this email accuses him basically of violating a police department's standards and maybe even federal law. [00:04:59] Speaker 01: So why wouldn't that email flunk that part of the Pickering Test? [00:05:05] Speaker 00: because well first of all you're going to be referring to the January 19th email which appears at the bottom of the appendix 48 and the top of appendix 49. [00:05:15] Speaker 01: I'm sorry, you're totally right. [00:05:17] Speaker 01: You're totally right. [00:05:17] Speaker 01: My mistake. [00:05:19] Speaker 00: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused about what you're talking about. [00:05:22] Speaker 00: Okay, my mistake. [00:05:24] Speaker 00: We have a private email [00:05:27] Speaker 00: from one private email to this person's personal private Yahoo email. [00:05:34] Speaker 00: And then we have a copy to a group of people which are also part of a private email. [00:05:42] Speaker 00: And this illegal action which we are calling them out on is intended [00:05:49] Speaker 00: to bring this person back into compliance with the law, an unlawful act by a superior in treating these people on fairly unwarranted disciplinary actions, arbitrary disciplinary actions, a promotion process which was completely devoid of merit. [00:06:08] Speaker 00: This is intended to benefit this organization because the folks who are doing these things have gone so far beyond the pale. [00:06:18] Speaker 00: of what is required to run a public organization like that. [00:06:23] Speaker 00: And this is not being brought up in a chain of command where I say, I disobey your order in front of the public because you're a bad person. [00:06:37] Speaker 00: This is a dialogue which is going on for months in which these high ranking people [00:06:45] Speaker 00: have willingly subscribed to a private email list to participate in that dialogue. [00:06:52] Speaker 00: And you will see numerous people of all the spectrum of the organization to-ing and fro-ing about what is wrong with this organization. [00:07:04] Speaker 00: That is the purpose of this email dialogue. [00:07:09] Speaker 00: And people are pointing fingers at one another. [00:07:11] Speaker 00: And there's strident tone here. [00:07:17] Speaker 00: are willingly arguing about this organization. [00:07:22] Speaker 00: If we go back and look at the Griffith case, if we look at the Griffith opinion, there is an enormous body of law there that was sort of amorphous at the time that I brought that lawsuit. [00:07:36] Speaker 00: People did not have a clear idea of what it was that this organization did, what authority it had, [00:07:47] Speaker 00: And what we should even call the people who are participating, can we call them members? [00:07:52] Speaker 00: Do they have the authority to deprive somebody else of their liberty? [00:07:56] Speaker 00: All of this stuff was very much still up in the air in 2008 when these things were going on. [00:08:02] Speaker 00: And folks are willingly subscribing [00:08:05] Speaker 00: to an email list to have it out with one another, just the same way folks who are part of community organizations, the people who subscribe to email lists or individual district or police district organizations to sit there and talk about what is wrong with this thing. [00:08:25] Speaker 00: I cannot think of a greater [00:08:31] Speaker 00: than to hash it out with these folks, toing and froing. [00:08:35] Speaker 00: And I certainly got my share of abuse on these things, as much as anyone else, about what is wrong here and how to fix it. [00:08:45] Speaker 00: And to say that a police official subscribes to a private email list and sticks themselves in the fray of this and then starts [00:08:58] Speaker 00: getting upset because, guess what, we're not happy with what you're doing. [00:09:02] Speaker 00: To say that that is an appropriate, that that somehow is detrimental to the discipline of the police department, I just, I respectfully disagree on that. [00:09:15] Speaker 01: Oh, I wasn't stating my, I was just asking you a question. [00:09:18] Speaker 01: That was all. [00:09:20] Speaker 00: Do you have anything else you're into your rebuttal time? [00:09:23] Speaker 00: I'm into my rebuttal time. [00:09:25] Speaker 00: Let me sit down. [00:09:37] Speaker 02: Good morning, and may it please the Court, Carl Schifferle for the District of Columbia. [00:09:41] Speaker 02: It is our first argument that Mr. La Fonde is not entitled to ask this Court to review a non-final decision that is the interlocutory denial of summary judgment. [00:09:52] Speaker 04: Pretty clear the District Judge tried to arrange this so that it would be appeal-reviewable, correct? [00:09:58] Speaker 04: That may have been the district court's... So she did what she could and looks like it's adequate to provide a final judgment. [00:10:08] Speaker 02: Well, we disagree. [00:10:09] Speaker 02: That is, the decision that she issued was one that dismissed the case with prejudice based on Mr. La Fonde's intention to produce no evidence at trial. [00:10:19] Speaker 02: And we think that is the decision which [00:10:23] Speaker 02: is the final decision, the denial of summary judgment previously, as this court explained and fell to apply in the Supreme Court's decision in Ortiz versus Jordan, that interlocutor denial of summary judgment is not reviewable. [00:10:38] Speaker 02: But I can go on to the mayor's question. [00:10:40] Speaker 04: What's interlocutor? [00:10:40] Speaker 04: I'm sorry, go ahead. [00:10:41] Speaker 04: What's interlocutor? [00:10:44] Speaker 02: The denial of summary judgment, it is an interlocutory decision that occurred prior to the entry of the final judgment, which was the dismissal of the case with prejudice. [00:10:56] Speaker 01: But didn't you move to dismiss the case? [00:10:58] Speaker 01: Didn't the district move to dismiss the case? [00:11:00] Speaker 02: We did, Your Honor, when the court essentially directed us to after saying it would not allow the district. [00:11:07] Speaker 01: But you agreed. [00:11:07] Speaker 01: The district court said, as I recall, the district court said, asked, were you counsel in the district court? [00:11:17] Speaker 01: No, Your Honor. [00:11:17] Speaker 01: As district's counsel, if they agreed with Mr. La Fonde that there were no factual issues that needed trial, he agreed. [00:11:24] Speaker 01: And she said, well, why don't you move to dismiss? [00:11:27] Speaker 01: And he did. [00:11:30] Speaker 02: We agree that he was terminated for the emails that were sent. [00:11:34] Speaker 01: That's not what I'm asking you. [00:11:36] Speaker 01: I'm asking you about the district move to dismiss, and the district court granted it with prejudice in order to facilitate this appeal. [00:11:45] Speaker 02: Perhaps. [00:11:46] Speaker 02: So whether this court actually has jurisdiction to review the district court's decision, it is jurisdictional. [00:11:54] Speaker 04: It's for this court to determine. [00:11:56] Speaker 04: So what did you have to say about the public citizen case in 2007? [00:12:02] Speaker 04: I'm sorry. [00:12:05] Speaker 04: I read from it. [00:12:06] Speaker 04: Denial of a motion for summary judgment typically is not a final order, but it may be reviewed on appeal where it is accompanied by a final order disposing of all issues before the district court. [00:12:17] Speaker 02: That is not consistent with Ortiz v. Jordan. [00:12:21] Speaker 02: There, that was the same issue when the officers in Ortiz argued that the court could review its denial of summary judgment after a [00:12:34] Speaker 02: Trial and a final judgment on the merits against the officers and the Supreme Court said in Ortiz that earlier denial of summary judgment is not reviewable even though there is a final judgment in the form of a jury verdict against the officers and Because that post states our public citizen correct crack John [00:12:56] Speaker 03: On the substance, though, if we talk a minute about the substance, assuming there's something before us that is reviewable on the substance, your argument – and I want you to flesh this out – is that if we apply the balancing test, that the government's interest here outweighs whatever private interests that might have been – that he might have had in expressing his views. [00:13:22] Speaker 02: Correct, Your Honor. [00:13:24] Speaker 02: First of all, I would point out on that particular factor when Mr. La Fonde moved for summary judgment, but below, he made no argument on this particular factor, even though it's his burden as the plaintiff and the summary judgment movement to make the requisite showing. [00:13:37] Speaker 02: All he said was that the district waived [00:13:40] Speaker 02: this particular factor by not asserting in its own summary judgment motion. [00:13:44] Speaker 02: Of course, that's not correct. [00:13:45] Speaker 02: The district doesn't concede or waive a point just because it doesn't affirmatively move for summary judgment. [00:13:51] Speaker 02: That was his only argument in his motion for summary judgment. [00:13:54] Speaker 02: So therefore, it's not error for the district court not to grant summary judgment for Mr. La Fonde. [00:14:00] Speaker 02: I would also point out on the procedural posture we're in, it's [00:14:04] Speaker 02: where Mr. LaFonte is asking this court to basically direct that he be entitled to summary judgment, the summary judgment standard requires that all reasonable inferences be drawn in the district's favor, that the plaintiff has the burden, again, not only as the plaintiff, but as a summary judgment movement. [00:14:23] Speaker 01: What about Judge Kavanaugh's question now? [00:14:25] Speaker 01: Would you, instead of talking about waiver, why don't you just answer his question? [00:14:30] Speaker 02: Okay, so viewing the evidence in the district's favor, we submit that it does at least [00:14:40] Speaker 02: prevent Mr. LaFonte from being entitled to judgment as a matter of law because of the concern about discipline and maintaining workplace harmony, maintaining office morale. [00:14:51] Speaker 01: But what about the point he just made? [00:14:53] Speaker 01: He said, the point he just made is he was, yeah, the language is tough, but he was calling out serious problems and it's important that that be done in the public interest. [00:15:04] Speaker 02: Well, we don't concede that he spoke on the matter of public concern or that he spoke as a citizen, but... No, no, assuming he did. [00:15:11] Speaker 02: But assuming he did, nevertheless, that's where this balancing test comes in. [00:15:15] Speaker 01: So what is it about his emails that remove it from First Amendment protection? [00:15:21] Speaker 02: Is it the tone? [00:15:23] Speaker 02: There's the tone and the language. [00:15:25] Speaker 02: It is extremely derogatory, derisive, contemptuous. [00:15:29] Speaker 02: He talks about it would be better if a sergeant was knocked over and rolled on his side towards the crowd, that the sergeant would be more useful doing that. [00:15:39] Speaker 02: He talked about the [00:15:41] Speaker 02: superiors suffering from full-blown delusions of adequacy. [00:15:45] Speaker 02: He mocked them. [00:15:46] Speaker 02: He made fun of them. [00:15:47] Speaker 02: He refused their requests for information. [00:15:51] Speaker 02: His goal, he said explicitly, was to embarrass his superiors and, in fact, to force one of them [00:15:56] Speaker 02: to resign. [00:15:57] Speaker 02: This is in the context of his own ongoing personnel disputes with his superiors. [00:16:02] Speaker 02: He had been suspended and was under suspension at the time. [00:16:06] Speaker 02: It is clear that everything that was said was in the context of his own [00:16:12] Speaker 02: personal disputes. [00:16:14] Speaker 02: He had a clear personal motive here. [00:16:17] Speaker 02: This confrontation through these emails were being aired in front of all the other reserve officers and superiors. [00:16:24] Speaker 02: So this confrontation is not just a one-on-one, but is in front of, literally, or at least in the form of email, in front of all the other reserve officers. [00:16:34] Speaker 02: And that is particularly dangerous to the ability of the department to exercise authority and to maintain discipline. [00:16:42] Speaker 03: folding back in the procedural posture now you said he would not be entitled to summary judgment on that on his claim given what you just said but you're in effect asking for us to grant you summary judgment on that claim I know your honor all we have to go from the dismissal [00:17:05] Speaker 03: Correct. [00:17:06] Speaker 03: You want the dismissal affirmed? [00:17:08] Speaker 02: Well, the dismissal is clearly correct. [00:17:10] Speaker 02: I mean, I don't think there's any dispute that because he... You don't want to go back for more proceedings, do you? [00:17:15] Speaker 02: Absolutely not. [00:17:15] Speaker 02: And that's why... That's right. [00:17:18] Speaker 02: That's why. [00:17:19] Speaker 02: Right. [00:17:19] Speaker 02: That's why... [00:17:21] Speaker 02: Well, first of all, we want the court just to look at whether the dismissal was proper and it was because he presented no evidence. [00:17:27] Speaker 02: But even if he can review that earlier interrogatory decision, it's just the denial summary judgment. [00:17:32] Speaker 02: And if the denial summary judgment was proper, then that's the end of the case. [00:17:36] Speaker 03: If the denial summary judgment was proper, then the dismissal's proper and we just affirm. [00:17:41] Speaker 03: without flipping the burden as we normally would if you had received summary judgment. [00:17:48] Speaker 02: Right. [00:17:48] Speaker 02: And there would be no reason to remand because Mr. La Fonde made clear he's going to present no evidence at trial. [00:17:53] Speaker 02: So there would be no point in a remand. [00:17:55] Speaker 02: So he would have to conclusively prove each and every element of his first amendment claim, including not just the factors that we spoke about, but also causation as well. [00:18:05] Speaker 02: I mean, that's clearly a jury question. [00:18:08] Speaker 02: It's not something that would be appropriate for summary judgment. [00:18:10] Speaker 02: as well as the Minnell liability would have to establish, again, as a matter of law, even drawing all reasonable inferences in favor of the district, that he was entitled to summary judgment on that element as well, which he hasn't met. [00:18:26] Speaker 02: So considering all the factors, the fact that you would have to conclusively prove all of them in order to reverse the denial summary judgment, we would submit that there was no error here. [00:18:40] Speaker 02: Unless the court has other questions. [00:18:42] Speaker 02: OK, thank you. [00:18:44] Speaker 02: Thank you. [00:18:46] Speaker 01: How much time did Mr. LaFonde have? [00:18:49] Speaker 00: Go ahead. [00:18:51] Speaker 00: Touching on Judge Kavanaugh's question, [00:18:55] Speaker 00: We do see here that the District of Columbia is attempting to relitigate its loss at summary judgment on this point, which was that the district court stated that this speech is in the public's interest. [00:19:10] Speaker 00: And then in the denial of my subsequent motion for summary judgment, the court says these emails were made in the course of La Fondi's official duties. [00:19:22] Speaker 00: And in that regard, [00:19:23] Speaker 00: i've stayed over and over again this is a hard legal issue that this court can sink its teeth into and this conflation of these other things have not been preserved for appeal by the district of colombia [00:19:37] Speaker 00: made the point that this was detrimental to the conduct. [00:19:42] Speaker 00: They can't make that point because these folks who say that they were the subject of this abuse were willing subscribers to a private dialogue. [00:19:51] Speaker 00: They came in and said, I want to sit here and I want to participate in this dialogue, which has nothing to do with the police department. [00:19:58] Speaker 00: This is private persons having their work. [00:20:01] Speaker 00: OK. [00:20:02] Speaker 00: You can finish your sentence. [00:20:05] Speaker 00: OK. [00:20:06] Speaker 00: Thank you. [00:20:07] Speaker 00: And for these reasons and the reasons self-stated in my brief, I ask that the court reverse the decision of the district court and direct the Iberian state of the Metropolitan Police Department. [00:20:17] Speaker 00: Thank you. [00:20:18] Speaker 00: Thank you. [00:20:18] Speaker 01: The case is submitted.