[00:00:00] Speaker 00:
So we're back to the 097 patent and here we have a different claims mix that is at issue.

[00:00:24] Speaker 00:
And I'd like to begin by first pointing out

[00:00:27] Speaker 00:
that in the context of this particular appeal, we talked earlier about there being a spectrum of claims that talk about the controller clauses.

[00:00:39] Speaker 00:
In Claim 1, the controller is recited, but it's not recited in terms of the wherein clauses.

[00:00:45] Speaker 00:
It's a method step, and it's set forth actively.

[00:00:48] Speaker 00:
Claim 16 builds on Claim 1 and makes eminently clear there can simply be no question

[00:00:55] Speaker 00:
about the linkage that my brother talked about with respect to claim 30, whether the first controller clause and the second controller clause are linked together, whether limiting the rate of change of the output torque of the engine is somehow linked to supplanting that missing torque using the electric motor.

[00:01:13] Speaker 00:
Claim 16 resolves any dispute about that, and it does that in the third substantive clause there.

[00:01:21] Speaker 00:
And it says a highway cruising mode four wherein when the

[00:01:25] Speaker 00:
SP at a set point is less than the road load.

[00:01:28] Speaker 00:
Claim 16?

[00:01:29] Speaker 00:
Claim 16, yes.

[00:01:30] Speaker 01:
Of the 097?

[00:01:31] Speaker 00:
097.

[00:01:37] Speaker 01:
I think I'm looking at the correct thing.

[00:01:39] Speaker 01:
I'm not seeing anything about highway cruising mode.

[00:01:43] Speaker 00:
I'm sorry, your honor.

[00:01:44] Speaker 00:
I've got the wrong one in front of me.

[00:01:45] Speaker 00:
It's claim 21.

[00:01:55] Speaker 00:
The point I wanted to make about Claim 16 is that it actually requires you to start the engine.

[00:02:00] Speaker 00:
That was a missing piece from the last appeal, that a comparison to road load has to be used to start the engine.

[00:02:07] Speaker 00:
That's nowhere been shown in the prior art.

[00:02:09] Speaker 00:
But looking at Claim 21, Claim 21 specifically links the first and second wear-in clauses or controller clauses, if we want to call them that.

[00:02:18] Speaker 00:
And it says that

[00:02:20] Speaker 00:
If we look at the actual structure of the claim, the first controller clause says employing the controller to control the engine such that a rate of increase of output torque is limited.

[00:02:30] Speaker 00:
We've seen this before in other claims.

[00:02:34] Speaker 00:
And then it says supplying additional torque from at least one electric motor and wherein said step of controlling the engine such that the rate of change of output torque of the engine is limited is performed so that the combustion of fuel and within the engine occurs at substantially stoichiometric ratio.

[00:02:53] Speaker 00:
So the idea here is that it specifically links the notion of limiting the rate of change with supplying the additional torque from the electric motor.

[00:03:03] Speaker 00:
And that's an important aspect.

[00:03:04] Speaker 00:
So as we've talked about the claim construction, the contextual claim construction argument that we have, the linkage between the controllers is made manifest in claim 21.

[00:03:14] Speaker 00:
There simply can be no question that those two have to work hand in hand.

[00:03:21] Speaker 00:
We also have the same arguments we had with respect to Anderson in the prior appeal that apply here.

[00:03:30] Speaker 00:
And I won't repeat those.

[00:03:32] Speaker 00:
But again, very importantly, claim 21 adds this additional aspect, that what they not only have to show is that somehow the prior art limits the rate of change, but that it also supplies the electric motor torque while it's limiting the rate of change of the engine.

[00:03:49] Speaker 00:
So the way the structure works,

[00:03:51] Speaker 00:
is that as the driver says, I want to go faster, the microprocessor says, no, you will not.

[00:03:58] Speaker 00:
I'm going to limit the rate of change of output torque, and at the same time, supplements it using torque from the electric motor.

[00:04:05] Speaker 00:
We've talked about the fact that Anderson doesn't talk about limiting the rate of change.

[00:04:10] Speaker 00:
Here, we've made manifest that the prior art must also show that the electric motor is used to supplement the missing torque.

[00:04:18] Speaker 00:
And that is nowhere shown in the prior art.

[00:04:21] Speaker 00:
I spoke a little bit about the Severinsky reference and their reliance on the Severinsky reference with this combination.

[00:04:27] Speaker 00:
That is facially defective for one very important reason.

[00:04:31] Speaker 00:
The Severinsky 970 patent doesn't bring the electric motor on at all until the engine has reached maximum capacity.

[00:04:40] Speaker 00:
So let me just make sure I take that apart.

[00:04:42] Speaker 00:
So what happens in the Severinsky 970 case is that the electric motor moves the vehicle.

[00:04:47] Speaker 00:
When it reaches a certain speed, the engine comes on.

[00:04:50] Speaker 00:
The engine alone then drives the car until the engine is maxed out.

[00:04:54] Speaker 00:
When the engine is maxed out, then the electric motor is brought back in to allow further acceleration of the vehicle.

[00:05:01] Speaker 00:
It does not show in any way, shape, or form any ability to limit the rate of change of the engine.

[00:05:08] Speaker 00:
But even if it did, it tells us you don't bring the electric motor on until the engine is already at 100%.

[00:05:14] Speaker 00:
So the notion that you're going to somehow supplement

[00:05:19] Speaker 00:
the missing torque from the engine using the electric motor is nowhere.

[00:05:24] Speaker 00:
It is nowhere in this record.

[00:05:27] Speaker 00:
And Ford can't point to it.

[00:05:28] Speaker 00:
What they've said is, well, if the driver decides not to push so hard on the accelerator, then the engine will not accelerate as quickly as it might otherwise.

[00:05:39] Speaker 00:
That gets us back into the limiting discussion that we had before, that limitation is not

[00:05:44] Speaker 00:
is not just any possible gradiation in the torque.

[00:05:48] Speaker 00:
It has to be limited with respect to something.

[00:05:50] Speaker 00:
And the something here is the driver's demand.

[00:05:54] Speaker 00:
And so Ford can't show that Severinsky or Anderson limits the rate of change of torque.

[00:05:59] Speaker 00:
But very critically, when they rely on Severinsky and they say Severinsky shows that you're bringing on the electric motor to supplement torque, that cannot happen in Severinsky 970 until the engine reaches 100%

[00:06:14] Speaker 00:
of its output.

[00:06:16] Speaker 00:
And so it is impossible, it is impossible for that combination to somehow accomplish the methods of the 097 patent.

[00:06:27] Speaker 00:
Impossible.

[00:06:32] Speaker 03:
Any questions about that?

[00:06:33] Speaker 01:
Can I just ask you to see if you can explain column 14 in particular?

[00:06:39] Speaker 01:
This goes back to the point I was talking about with Mr.

[00:06:43] Speaker 01:
more.

[00:06:43] Speaker 01:
I'm just trying to understand there are that column in particular, but distinguishes a number of pieces of prior art, Frank, Igami, others in ways that I do not understand well enough, but seems to suggest that pedal position is not road load.

[00:07:07] Speaker 01:
Even the

[00:07:11] Speaker 01:
The vehicle driving torque demand of Egami is not road load.

[00:07:17] Speaker 01:
Can you enlighten me?

[00:07:19] Speaker 00:
Certainly.

[00:07:23] Speaker 00:
When you're designing one of these vehicles, you have to make a decision about what to use as the input to your control algorithm.

[00:07:30] Speaker 00:
Lots of people have used different approaches.

[00:07:33] Speaker 00:
Many have used pedal position, because it is a very simple approach that the further you depress the pedal,

[00:07:39] Speaker 00:
you cycle through the hybrid componentry that you have available to you.

[00:07:43] Speaker 00:
And Frank shows some of that.

[00:07:45] Speaker 00:
They also talk about speed, that the idea that you can, as the car begins to accelerate, it is generally true that you will operate the engine more efficiently at high speeds than at low speeds.

[00:07:56] Speaker 00:
And so Dr. Severinsky's 970 patent embraced that.

[00:07:59] Speaker 01:
And Enigami talks about this map concept that you were referring to too, but it seems to distinguish it from road load.

[00:08:06] Speaker 00:
It does.

[00:08:07] Speaker 01:
You were explaining you use a map

[00:08:09] Speaker 01:
calculate road loads.

[00:08:10] Speaker 01:
That's part of why I'm confused.

[00:08:12] Speaker 00:
Well, that's right.

[00:08:13] Speaker 00:
So what happens in Agami is they toy with the idea of using different inputs to drive decisions between hybrid componentry.

[00:08:23] Speaker 00:
But what they didn't do was to somehow create the map, the real world map that was necessary in order to translate some of those inputs into true road load.

[00:08:34] Speaker 00:
And so we've discussed it's not an issue in these appeals, but we've discussed Agami at some length.

[00:08:39] Speaker 00:
in some of the parallel litigation because it has to do with, you know, they've made validity challenges based on IGAMI in the past.

[00:08:46] Speaker 00:
And we've distinguished it because IGAMI's maps, which again are the way that engineers actually employ road load in real systems, IGAMI's maps don't show that road load.

[00:08:57] Speaker 00:
They don't show that real world testing necessary to make that happen.

[00:09:02] Speaker 00:
My colleague also reminds me that the IGAMI system is actually a series parallel, so it has different considerations as well.

[00:09:10] Speaker 00:
But the calculation of road load is very important, and it is something that is at issue in this case in that what they need to show is that the prior art determines road load and then makes that comparison to make mode changes, for example, to start the engine as in claim 16 of the 634 patent.

[00:09:27] Speaker 00:
And that is simply nowhere in this record.

[00:09:31] Speaker 00:
You'll see a fair amount of discussion of pedal position as well in column 14.

[00:09:36] Speaker 00:
And again, pedal position is a possible metric, but it is not sufficient to show road look.

[00:09:41] Speaker 00:
I want to be absolutely clear about that.

[00:09:43] Speaker 02:
Again, there's nothing in the patent here that tells you how to determine road look.

[00:09:51] Speaker 00:
That is true.

[00:09:53] Speaker 00:
That is true.

[00:09:54] Speaker 00:
But the board, we had a long discussion before the board about whether or not they should clarify that by looking at the extrinsic evidence and providing a definition of how to determine road load.

[00:10:07] Speaker 00:
And the board declined to do that.

[00:10:08] Speaker 00:
We actually gave them, both sides I believe, gave them possible suggestions and the board decided they didn't need to do that.

[00:10:18] Speaker 00:
So with respect to the

[00:10:21] Speaker 00:
this particular appeal, what makes these claims unique, claim 21, is that you have both the road load limitations and the comparison to set point as well as the limitations regarding limiting the rate of change of output torque and supplementing it with the electric motor.

[00:10:39] Speaker 00:
So we see that where the set point limitations, for example, in claim 21

[00:10:45] Speaker 00:
are set forth and we have to operate the electric motor when road load is less than a set point.

[00:10:50] Speaker 00:
Again, the first comparison that has to be made and operate the internal combustion engine when it's above a set point, a second comparison that has to be made.

[00:10:58] Speaker 00:
In nowhere in the prior art has Ford been able to point to a comparison of any kind.

[00:11:04] Speaker 00:
So we had a discussion earlier about column 20 and the notion that there is this aspirational 60 to 90 percent range that is set forth for the efficient operation of the engine.

[00:11:15] Speaker 00:
That doesn't tell us how to get there, but more importantly, it never accomplishes the comparisons that the claim textually requires.

[00:11:24] Speaker 02:
Why aren't road load and torque output the same thing?

[00:11:28] Speaker 02:
Because it seems to me that what you have is a situation in which the operator decides to depress the pedal enough to get the vehicle moving.

[00:11:38] Speaker 02:
and that what the system is doing is measuring the amount of pedal pressure and the torque produced by it.

[00:11:47] Speaker 00:
Imagine, Your Honor, that you're driving at 30 miles an hour and you depress the pedal to 45 degrees.

[00:11:55] Speaker 00:
The behavior of the vehicle is going to be decidedly different because there was already loading on the engine.

[00:11:59] Speaker 00:
A propeller vehicle has to mean propeller vehicle at the speed that the operator wishes to go, right?

[00:12:06] Speaker 00:
Well, it's speed, it's delta speed, and it's the derivative of delta speed.

[00:12:10] Speaker 00:
So it's the first and second derivatives of speed as well.

[00:12:13] Speaker 00:
And then we have to look at the fact that the pedal position itself isn't static.

[00:12:18] Speaker 00:
So you have pedal position, then you have the first derivative of pedal position.

[00:12:20] Speaker 02:
So the operator decides, how much torque do I need?

[00:12:24] Speaker 02:
The vehicle's going too slow.

[00:12:25] Speaker 02:
I'm going to depress the pedal some more.

[00:12:28] Speaker 02:
And the amount of the depression of the pedal is both the torque output and what's necessary to propel the vehicle, right?

[00:12:35] Speaker 00:
Not entirely.

[00:12:37] Speaker 00:
So you have to... Why is that?

[00:12:38] Speaker 02:
Why is my statement wrong?

[00:12:40] Speaker 00:
Because you have to take into account the other forces that are on the vehicle.

[00:12:43] Speaker 00:
And I think that's why we haven't seen any of the prior art before.

[00:12:45] Speaker 02:
I mean the other forces.

[00:12:46] Speaker 02:
I mean the operator depresses the pedal.

[00:12:50] Speaker 02:
The vehicle moves.

[00:12:52] Speaker 02:
It's the amount of torque.

[00:12:54] Speaker 02:
He asks the engine to produce the amount of torque to propel the vehicle at the speed that he wants to go.

[00:13:01] Speaker 00:
We haven't seen any of the prior art that Ford points to or the board relied on as relying on pedal position for that reason.

[00:13:08] Speaker 00:
It does not represent the actual road load of the vehicle.

[00:13:11] Speaker 00:
This real world mapping situation or process that engineers go through is profound.

[00:13:16] Speaker 00:
It's not trivial.

[00:13:18] Speaker 00:
There are lots of different operating conditions.

[00:13:20] Speaker 00:
We've even seen that they change based on the region.

[00:13:23] Speaker 02:
What are you suggesting that there's some measurement of torque required to propel a vehicle that's made before the vehicle is asked to propel at that speed?

[00:13:32] Speaker 02:
I'm saying that when commands are issued by the driver, and there's no question the driver is a prime mover here, that those commands... So there's no determination of road load except by the driver who determines how much to depress the pedal?

[00:13:48] Speaker 00:
Well, again, Your Honor, there's a microprocessor that runs them through these maps that allows it to determine road load, is what we've seen.

[00:13:55] Speaker 00:
And that's the way it actually works.

[00:13:58] Speaker 00:
I'd point out quickly that when you're just starting out, you're in electric mode only.

[00:14:04] Speaker 00:
And so the decision there is somewhat trivial.

[00:14:09] Speaker 00:
The idea is that the road load is going to be less than a set point, and therefore the electric mode would be driving the vehicle.

[00:14:16] Speaker 00:
But you asked a moment ago why the output of the engine couldn't be the road load.

[00:14:20] Speaker 00:
And we have figure seven.

[00:14:22] Speaker 00:
Figure seven shows us, it demonstrably shows us that road load and the output of the engine are two different things.

[00:14:28] Speaker 00:
And it's not trivial.

[00:14:30] Speaker 02:
Sure, they're different things.

[00:14:31] Speaker 02:
But what the operator is determining is, I want to get the vehicle moving, so I'm going to adjust the torque that the engine is producing to measure the amount of torque that's required for the road load.

[00:14:45] Speaker 02:
Right?

[00:14:47] Speaker 00:
Yes, that is a big input, a big input, but it is not dispositive.

[00:14:51] Speaker 00:
A 30% declination of the pedal when I'm going uphill at 30 miles an hour gives me a completely different result than if I'm going downhill at 60 miles an hour.

[00:15:00] Speaker 00:
It's, they're simply, the other factors that are acting on the car must be part of the road load equation.

[00:15:08] Speaker 01:
One question.

[00:15:09] Speaker 01:
You have infringement litigation that at least was initiated.

[00:15:14] Speaker 00:
We have.

[00:15:15] Speaker 01:
Have you identified a component of the accused vehicles that provides the road load input?

[00:15:26] Speaker 00:
We have.

[00:15:26] Speaker 00:
We have had successful litigation against Toyota.

[00:15:29] Speaker 01:
Is that something that you can, I don't know whether all this is confidential, that you can describe

[00:15:35] Speaker 01:
how it works?

[00:15:36] Speaker 00:
Well, I think I've described it kind of in the confidential terms at Liberty to use that they do this mapping process.

[00:15:43] Speaker 00:
Okay.

[00:15:43] Speaker 00:
But we have seen, you know, and again, the highly confidential technical disclosures of the use of a torque value that is calculated and then used as the control input.

[00:15:54] Speaker 00:
Which is not described in the PAT?

[00:15:57] Speaker 00:
The calculation of road load is not.

[00:15:59] Speaker 02:
That's correct, Ron.

[00:16:01] Speaker 02:
Okay.

[00:16:01] Speaker 02:
All right.

[00:16:01] Speaker 02:
You're out of time.

[00:16:02] Speaker 02:
We'll give you two minutes.

[00:16:16] Speaker 03:
For convenience, I'm just going to pick up where we left off of Rodeo.

[00:16:19] Speaker 03:
In this simple calculation here, we've heard there's no discussion of how Rodeo is calculated in the paste patents.

[00:16:26] Speaker 03:
But if we compare figure 4 of the 097 patent to figure 3 of the PriorArt 970 patent, you'll see they're exactly the same.

[00:16:40] Speaker 03:
What you see is the inputs to the microcontroller, and it has two sets.

[00:16:46] Speaker 03:
Operator commands, which has acceleration, accelerator pedal, direction, steering wheel, deceleration, brake, and cruise control.

[00:16:55] Speaker 03:
All operator commands that we all use with our vehicles every day.

[00:16:58] Speaker 03:
That's the inputs to the microcontroller.

[00:17:00] Speaker 03:
It also has some data inputs, where it talks about engine speed, motor speed, battery voltage.

[00:17:05] Speaker 03:
The figures are identical.

[00:17:07] Speaker 03:
The figures show the same operator command inputs and the same data inputs, so there can be no question that the 970 patent teaches

[00:17:14] Speaker 03:
the same inputs to road load as the figure four in the 970 patent.

[00:17:21] Speaker 03:
We also know that this road load construction wasn't disputed before the board.

[00:17:25] Speaker 03:
And there's been no dispute that road load is simply the torque required to propel the vehicle.

[00:17:29] Speaker 03:
We just heard that it requires consideration of other factors.

[00:17:34] Speaker 03:
Road load's been agreed on a construction by the parties as the torque required to propel the vehicle.

[00:17:40] Speaker 03:
Nothing about that construction requires consideration of any special factors, and even if it did,

[00:17:45] Speaker 03:
By comparing the figure 4 in the 097 patent to figure 3 in the 970 patent, you can see they're exactly the same.

[00:17:53] Speaker 03:
We've heard a lot about this in the last appeal that there's nothing in the PACE patents that talks about wind sensors for monitoring the wind resistance, or terrain sensors for monitoring whether you're on sand or pavement, or inclined sensors to determine whether you're going up a hill.

[00:18:07] Speaker 03:
There's no disclosure of that in the PACE patents.

[00:18:12] Speaker 03:
Moving to Claim 21, which is where this started, and this is actually in the 1411 appeal.

[00:18:18] Speaker 03:
In the 1411 appeal, Claim 21 does not require the motor supplement limitation to occur at the same time as the rate limit limitation.

[00:18:30] Speaker 03:
We heard there can be no question.

[00:18:31] Speaker 03:
There is a question.

[00:18:32] Speaker 03:
For the same reasons we disputed regarding Claims 1 and 11, we also disputed here.

[00:18:37] Speaker 03:
There's separate limitations separated by a comma.

[00:18:40] Speaker 03:
There's an and between the two.

[00:18:42] Speaker 03:
There's nothing in the claim language that requires them to occur at the same time.

[00:18:46] Speaker 03:
And there's also, it's irrelevant because Anderson discloses it.

[00:18:50] Speaker 03:
Anderson discloses a hybrid strategy that only allows slow transients.

[00:18:56] Speaker 03:
And how it only allows slow transients is by placing the burden on the battery which drives the motor.

[00:19:02] Speaker 03:
So that's got limiting the rate of change of engine output torque by only allowing slow transients.

[00:19:08] Speaker 03:
And it's got the motor supplement limitation by placing the burden

[00:19:12] Speaker 03:
on the battery.

[00:19:14] Speaker 03:
We also have ample expert testimony to support that to show the substantial evidence.

[00:19:24] Speaker 03:
Ford's expert, for example, was credited by the board on page A16 through 17 of the 2033 appeal and on page A9 and 10 of the 1411 appeal.

[00:19:38] Speaker 03:
And the expert testimony on this

[00:19:40] Speaker 03:
is particularly regarding the battery placing the strain, that strain being used, talking about a motor, excuse me, particularly the language, placing greater strain on the battery, meaning that you use the battery to power the motor and supplement the engine.

[00:19:57] Speaker 03:
That's in the 1411 appeal at A3846.

[00:20:03] Speaker 03:
And the sites of the deposition are 236, lines 10 through 25,

[00:20:09] Speaker 03:
and in the expert declarations at A4035 through 39.

[00:20:15] Speaker 03:
So all these issues have been raised before the board, properly rejected by the board, and there's substantial evidence to support the board's decision.

[00:20:26] Speaker 03:
With regard to motivation to combine, the limit here is not the driver's demand in Anderson.

[00:20:35] Speaker 03:
When you look at Anderson, Anderson talks about

[00:20:38] Speaker 03:
slow transients.

[00:20:39] Speaker 03:
The driver doesn't have anything to do with limiting slow transients.

[00:20:43] Speaker 03:
That's the hybrid strategy.

[00:20:44] Speaker 03:
If you look at the Anderson reference, there was a lot of talk about components versus hybrid strategies.

[00:20:50] Speaker 01:
The Anderson patent... What did you say about the driver and slow transients just now?

[00:20:55] Speaker 03:
There was an argument by my brother that said Anderson is talking about the limit is by the driver's demand.

[00:21:02] Speaker 03:
That the limit on the rate and change of engine output torque was by the driver limiting the engine pedal.

[00:21:08] Speaker 03:
And that's how it wasn't sufficient to satisfy the rate limit limitation.

[00:21:13] Speaker 03:
So we've got the rate limit limitation.

[00:21:15] Speaker 03:
We've got to limit the rate and change of engine output torque.

[00:21:19] Speaker 03:
And Anderson didn't satisfy it.

[00:21:21] Speaker 03:
This was an argument by Pace because it disclosed the driver limited the amount of fuel going to the engine and the slower transients, not the control strategy.

[00:21:33] Speaker 03:
I'm saying that's incorrect because Anderson shows

[00:21:36] Speaker 03:
When you're limiting the transients, you're limiting how fast fuel goes to the engine.

[00:21:41] Speaker 03:
That's literally between your throttle and your cylinders and your engine that determine how fast that fuel can go into the cylinder so you can have a stoichiometric combustion within that cylinder.

[00:21:52] Speaker 03:
The driver doesn't have anything to do it.

[00:21:54] Speaker 03:
The driver can press the gas pedal hard, but how Anderson limits the slow transients is it, instead of putting all that burden on the engine and requiring a large influx of fuel,

[00:22:05] Speaker 03:
It only allows a slower influx of fuel, so slower transients, and it places the burden on the battery and the motor.

[00:22:15] Speaker 03:
And we know that because all this talk about components versus strategies, the title of the Anderson reference is the effects of the APU, that's the engine characteristics, on the design of the hybrid control strategies.

[00:22:28] Speaker 03:
Anderson is all about hybrid control strategies.

[00:22:31] Speaker 03:
And when you put Anderson together with Severinsky,

[00:22:34] Speaker 03:
It's a classic KPSR combination.

[00:22:38] Speaker 03:
You're taking the known technique of slowing transients and doing it with the motor with Anderson, with Severinsky.

[00:22:45] Speaker 03:
The Severinsky based system, they're both hybrids.

[00:22:47] Speaker 03:
They both want to improve fuel economy.

[00:22:50] Speaker 03:
They both want to reduce emissions.

[00:22:52] Speaker 03:
They both want to reduce the same types of emissions, hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide.

[00:22:56] Speaker 03:
And they both do it the same way by using the motor to supplement the engine.

[00:23:01] Speaker 03:
Severinsky does it by

[00:23:03] Speaker 03:
only operating the engine in its sweet spot.

[00:23:05] Speaker 03:
That's 60% to 90% of maximum torque output, and it uses the motor to drive the vehicle below it, and it uses the engine and motor above it.

[00:23:14] Speaker 03:
Anderson reference comes in and says, okay, we have the same goals as you, but in this mode where you operate the engine, you can further improve it and further reduce emissions by preventing fast transients.

[00:23:28] Speaker 03:
By preventing in those times when a driver wants rapid acceleration,

[00:23:31] Speaker 03:
instead of putting all that burden on the engine and having poor admissions, you can then put some of that burden on the motor, like you've done below the sweet spot and above the sweet spot, put some of that burden on the motor while you're operating your engine too, and you can further reduce those admissions.

[00:23:48] Speaker 03:
So the systems fit together hand in glove, and there's ample expert testimony on this about this combination.

[00:23:55] Speaker 03:
There's over 30 pages of it, and if you're in the 1411 appeal,

[00:23:59] Speaker 03:
It's at page A339 through 340, A4046 through 77, and A188 through 200.

[00:24:12] Speaker 03:
So there is more than substantial evidence to support the board's opinions on all of these points.

[00:24:19] Speaker 03:
Unless there's any further questions?

[00:24:21] Speaker 03:
Okay, thanks for this time.

[00:24:24] Speaker 02:
Mr. Cordell, you have two minutes.

[00:24:31] Speaker 00:
So if I can begin back with claim 21, my brother said that there wasn't any linkage between supplying torque from the electric motor when the engine is being limited, and that's just not there.

[00:24:42] Speaker 00:
So that's just not the case.

[00:24:44] Speaker 00:
So in the clause that we've numbered little to i, employing said controller to control the engine such that a rate of increase of output torque of the engine is limited to less than said inherent maximum rate of increase of output torque

[00:24:57] Speaker 00:
And if the engine is incapable of supplying instantaneous torque required to propel the hybrid vehicle, supplying additional torque from at least one electric motor.

[00:25:08] Speaker 00:
It is chromatically linked together.

[00:25:10] Speaker 00:
It is structurally linked together.

[00:25:13] Speaker 00:
It is technically linked together.

[00:25:15] Speaker 00:
It says in a single phrase that you artificially limit the rate of change of the output torque of the engine and then supply the missing torque from the electric motor.

[00:25:25] Speaker 00:
That is a key aspect of all of these inventions.

[00:25:27] Speaker 00:
But it is, or all of these claims, but it is made manifest in Claim 21.

[00:25:31] Speaker 00:
So I don't want to lose sight of that.

[00:25:34] Speaker 00:
My brother also said that, he said that we characterized the Anderson reference somehow as the driver being involved.

[00:25:42] Speaker 00:
I don't think that's quite right.

[00:25:43] Speaker 00:
Ford said that that was Severinsky.

[00:25:45] Speaker 00:
Ford looked at the Severinsky and the board looked at the Severinsky reference and said, well, sometimes the driver doesn't push so hard on the pedal.

[00:25:52] Speaker 00:
And so that's limiting the rate of change.

[00:25:54] Speaker 00:
But again, for the reasons that we talked about earlier, the term limiting has to be with respect to something that simply can't be.

[00:26:01] Speaker 00:
There is no evidence that Ms.

[00:26:03] Speaker 00:
Anderson discloses any kind of limitation between the throttle and the cylinder or the pedal and the cylinder.

[00:26:09] Speaker 00:
She simply says, use slow transients.

[00:26:11] Speaker 00:
That's a good way to go.

[00:26:12] Speaker 00:
And she tells us at the end

[00:26:15] Speaker 00:
page seven of nine of her paper, that immediately the way to do that is to use a series hybrid.

[00:26:21] Speaker 00:
It's at the penultimate paragraph on page seven of nine, and we've been through that.

[00:26:26] Speaker 00:
We should also point out that Ms.

[00:26:28] Speaker 00:
Anderson says you cannot use a parallel system.

[00:26:31] Speaker 00:
She is specifically denigrating the Severinsky 970 approach and does not say that you can do it.

[00:26:40] Speaker 00:
In fact, she says don't do it.

[00:26:41] Speaker 00:
She says they always use as fast transients

[00:26:44] Speaker 02:
with respect to a parallel or follower system and therefore don't do it.