[00:00:55] Speaker 03:
In Ray Riccelli?

[00:00:57] Speaker 03:
Riccelli?

[00:00:58] Speaker 03:
Nope.

[00:00:59] Speaker 03:
Barking and wireless.

[00:01:00] Speaker 03:
Sorry.

[00:01:03] Speaker 03:
Mr. Katz.

[00:01:08] Speaker 02:
You're reserving five.

[00:01:10] Speaker 02:
Yes, Your Honor.

[00:01:11] Speaker 02:
Okay.

[00:01:13] Speaker 02:
Your Honor is meant to please the court.

[00:01:15] Speaker 02:
The district court below incorrectly ruled that the term access point had been redefined by the patentee as Wi-Fi public hotspot.

[00:01:23] Speaker 02:
No such binding lexicography exists.

[00:01:27] Speaker 02:
The construction should be reversed and the case remanded.

[00:01:31] Speaker 02:
To provide some context, I'd like to describe the invention that's cited by, for example, claim one of the 306 patent.

[00:01:41] Speaker 02:
The invention generally claims a computing device.

[00:01:48] Speaker 03:
The page nine of the blue brief, you say,

[00:01:50] Speaker 03:
Indeed, the district court's speculation that a laptop user could or would create a wired connection to a Wi-Fi public hotspot was speculative and not based on any disclosure in the patent or on any evidence involving the understanding of a skilled artisan.

[00:02:07] Speaker 03:
What evidence do you have to support your argument that these are mutually exclusive?

[00:02:20] Speaker 02:
So at the district court, the court looked at one of the references that was in the specification that actually described a wired connection and decided that even though it described a wired connection, it didn't preclude a wireless connection.

[00:02:49] Speaker 02:
However,

[00:02:51] Speaker 02:
I would point out that the computing devices or hotspots that are described in the specification refer to specifically a wired connection between, for example, a hotspot and an IP-based network.

[00:03:09] Speaker 02:
So if there is a wired connection there, it is not wireless.

[00:03:14] Speaker 02:
And in addition to that, it does not make sense

[00:03:20] Speaker 02:
if there is a wired connection to supplement it in some way with a wireless connection.

[00:03:26] Speaker 02:
You use AP for access points.

[00:03:29] Speaker 03:
So the rest of the folks in the room understand.

[00:03:32] Speaker 03:
You say, pages six and seven, that the use of the term these APs in the specification suggest that, and I'm quoting, these APs are but one type of AP.

[00:03:50] Speaker 03:
How does that suggest it?

[00:03:53] Speaker 03:
What other language in the specification supports your reading?

[00:03:58] Speaker 02:
Right.

[00:03:58] Speaker 02:
The word these refers back to the Wi-Fi public hotspot.

[00:04:06] Speaker 02:
If one were to take the word these out, it would be more suggestive that it's definitional of APs.

[00:04:16] Speaker 02:
In this case... What else in there supports your reading?

[00:04:22] Speaker 02:
Well, for one example, the fact that the patentee has referred to these APs and not just APs in general.

[00:04:33] Speaker 03:
I know.

[00:04:33] Speaker 03:
I said, what else have you got in the specification?

[00:04:37] Speaker 03:
You said one example.

[00:04:38] Speaker 03:
Give me some more.

[00:04:39] Speaker 02:
OK.

[00:04:40] Speaker 02:
Referring to appendix 113, this is of the 306 patent, column 2.

[00:04:51] Speaker 02:
it references wireless networks such as 802.11 networks that would be in line 8 of column 2, line 16 of column 2, it references such as 802.11 indicating that there are other wireless networks, there are other possibilities.

[00:05:10] Speaker 02:
In addition to that, there are references in column 2 beginning line 35 going down to line 47 where it references

[00:05:20] Speaker 02:
Wi-Fi access points and describes Wi-Fi and cellular.

[00:05:25] Speaker 02:
And obviously if access point had been intended to be redefined, there would be no need to preface access point with the phrase Wi-Fi.

[00:05:35] Speaker 01:
In addition to that... What other wireless networks do you think are referred to there in column two, line

[00:05:44] Speaker 01:
eight or so where it is referring to handovers and wireless networks such as 802.11 networks.

[00:05:49] Speaker 01:
What are all the wireless networks do you think that it's referring to here other than Wi-Fi?

[00:05:59] Speaker 02:
Wireless would include any wireless and it could include cellular networks and then down below in column two at line 51 it also mentions satellite communications.

[00:06:10] Speaker 02:
So at the, going back to the

[00:06:13] Speaker 02:
to the time of the invention, some of the networks were 802.11 networks.

[00:06:20] Speaker 02:
The other networks that were in popular use were cellular networks.

[00:06:24] Speaker 02:
And that's how, around the 2006-2007 time frame, a lot of computers or laptop computers would connect to the internet using network.

[00:06:37] Speaker 02:
cards that worked off of a cellular network.

[00:06:40] Speaker 02:
And the cell code providers would sell network cards that were effectively a cellular modem.

[00:06:47] Speaker 02:
So there's a number of wireless networks that are possible.

[00:06:52] Speaker 01:
So column two does mention other types of wireless networks, as you've pointed out.

[00:06:57] Speaker 01:
But as I understood the red brief, the point being made there was when you look at what the specification is disclosing,

[00:07:06] Speaker 01:
It's something that would only be applicable with Wi-Fi.

[00:07:10] Speaker 01:
It wouldn't be applicable with cellular.

[00:07:13] Speaker 01:
Do you agree with that?

[00:07:14] Speaker 01:
And if you don't, what could you point to in that later portion of the specification, say, starting after column 10, that would support your position?

[00:07:24] Speaker 02:
I think it would include cellular as well.

[00:07:33] Speaker 01:
Can you point me to specifics in, you know,

[00:07:36] Speaker 01:
the section called best mode for carrying out the invention, something that's not just the background of the invention section to help me see that.

[00:07:43] Speaker 02:
For example,

[00:08:00] Speaker 02:
What's been defined as the STAs or stations also are described in the cellular context at column five, lines 38 through 40, describing cellular protocols and the movement of... That's still part of the background art, where you're pointing to now.

[00:08:20] Speaker 01:
I think if you look at column five, line around 54, that's where I think there's the disclosure of the invention.

[00:08:30] Speaker 01:
Is there something beyond that that talks about cellular?

[00:09:05] Speaker 02:
At the moment, I don't see references specifically to cellular.

[00:09:11] Speaker 02:
But at the same time, there are not references specifically to Wi-Fi.

[00:09:17] Speaker 02:
There are references to wireless.

[00:09:20] Speaker 02:
And the background at the time in the context of wireless would support Wi-Fi or cellular.

[00:09:30] Speaker 02:
So while I can't point to cellular, I cannot

[00:09:33] Speaker 02:
necessarily point to satellite at the same time.

[00:09:35] Speaker 02:
These are not limited to Wi-Fi either.

[00:09:38] Speaker 02:
They're simply referring to wireless.

[00:09:45] Speaker 02:
There are some references to a wireless network interface card as well.

[00:09:49] Speaker 02:
Those are simply wireless.

[00:09:51] Speaker 02:
They can equally refer to cellular network interface cards as they could a Wi-Fi network interface card.

[00:10:03] Speaker 02:
I'd like to provide a little context.

[00:10:06] Speaker 04:
Can you help me just with this?

[00:10:09] Speaker 04:
If you look at figure one, which is kind of architecture of the arrangements, can you describe, are we talking about this up-down, double-arrow, lightning bolt bug thing, whether that has to be a Wi-Fi?

[00:10:33] Speaker 04:
connection or can also be a cellular connection?

[00:10:37] Speaker 04:
Is that the specific dispute that's at issue?

[00:10:41] Speaker 02:
I believe it could be both.

[00:10:42] Speaker 02:
Also, column 11, around line 37, 39, actually, I'm sorry, around line 44 talks about it being a wired connection as well.

[00:10:57] Speaker 04:
But what we're looking at is

[00:11:00] Speaker 04:
the nature of the connection in that lightning bolt-like thing.

[00:11:05] Speaker 02:
The lightning bolt, it's my understanding that that would typically denote wireless.

[00:11:10] Speaker 02:
And yes, could be Wi-Fi or cellular, some type of wireless.

[00:11:19] Speaker 04:
And I think you ended your answer to Judge Stoll by saying, if you started at the bottom of column five under the

[00:11:30] Speaker 04:
heading disclosure of invention, that if you read through that, it would not be limited to Wi-Fi, but is more generic as to wireless?

[00:11:43] Speaker 04:
Do I understand that right?

[00:11:47] Speaker 02:
In terms of the disclosure of the invention, yes, it relates to wireless and it's not restricted to a particular type of wireless.

[00:11:59] Speaker 02:
Now, there are certain

[00:12:01] Speaker 02:
There are a number of inventions in here.

[00:12:04] Speaker 02:
There's over 30 columns of disclosure.

[00:12:07] Speaker 02:
So there are some inventions that are described such as the viral spreading that would lend themselves to Wi-Fi.

[00:12:15] Speaker 02:
But other disclosures, other inventions are not.

[00:12:19] Speaker 02:
A lot of this invention goes to the handoff between from a

[00:12:28] Speaker 02:
client to another hotspot or sharing of hotspots between clients and so forth.

[00:12:36] Speaker 02:
Those can relate to other types of wireless.

[00:12:42] Speaker 03:
And specifically... You have a lot of things where you say it could be one or the other.

[00:12:47] Speaker 03:
Are there any specific embodiments in the specification that disclose cellular cells as access points?

[00:12:59] Speaker 02:
Well, yes, it's in the background art, and it would be column two beginning, I guess, around line 58.

[00:13:11] Speaker 02:
But please bear in mind that the district court made their lexicography determination based on an alleged redefinition that was in the background art.

[00:13:21] Speaker 04:
Correct.

[00:13:21] Speaker 04:
But one way, I guess, of framing what at least I'm worried about or thinking about is,

[00:13:28] Speaker 04:
deposit for a minute that you're right and the district court was wrong about the lexicography.

[00:13:35] Speaker 04:
Put that aside.

[00:13:37] Speaker 04:
Now the question is, does the spec show that when describing the invention, at least a Wi-Fi connection is what the access point has to have?

[00:13:57] Speaker 02:
In general terms, again, there's more than one access point.

[00:14:03] Speaker 02:
So as to between the hotspot and the clients, that is often referred to as Wi-Fi.

[00:14:15] Speaker 02:
When I talk about the viral spreading, that would be Wi-Fi.

[00:14:18] Speaker 02:
But in other aspects of the invention, it could be any type of wireless.

[00:14:24] Speaker 02:
But then there's another access point referred to in the claims that exists between the hotspot and the IP network that is a completely different access point.

[00:14:35] Speaker 01:
Is that the second access point?

[00:14:36] Speaker 02:
That's the first access point.

[00:14:38] Speaker 01:
The first access point, which is defined in the claims as being wireless, right?

[00:14:41] Speaker 02:
Yes, it is.

[00:14:42] Speaker 02:
It is explicitly wireless, which provides additional evidence that if the patentee had intended to redefine that term, he would not have had to add the

[00:14:53] Speaker 02:
the term wireless.

[00:14:57] Speaker 02:
Do I reserve the rest of your time?

[00:15:06] Speaker 03:
Yes.

[00:15:06] Speaker 03:
Ms.

[00:15:06] Speaker 03:
Woodworth?

[00:15:07] Speaker 00:
Good morning, Your Honor.

[00:15:09] Speaker 00:
May it please the Court.

[00:15:11] Speaker 00:
I want to start with the Hillbaum case that was cited actually by the appellant in this case.

[00:15:16] Speaker 00:
That case says that there are no magic words for lexicography.

[00:15:21] Speaker 00:
All that we're looking for is some language that expresses a clear intent to redefine a term.

[00:15:27] Speaker 00:
And as we submitted in the red brief here, we have not just one clue.

[00:15:30] Speaker 00:
We actually have five distinct clues in the definitional statement.

[00:15:35] Speaker 04:
Does your argument turn on our concluding that there was a definition?

[00:15:42] Speaker 00:
I think that there was a clear definition, Your Honor, but I don't think that the argument definitively turns on that.

[00:15:48] Speaker 04:
Because the sentence that was the

[00:15:51] Speaker 04:
really the basis of the claim construction that we're given is susceptible of different readings, even starting with what the access point, whether it refers to hotspot, to public hotspot, or to Wi-Fi public hotspot, three different levels.

[00:16:12] Speaker 04:
And in the neighborhood of that very thing, the column seems to refer to

[00:16:21] Speaker 04:
private hotspots, the locked kind as access points.

[00:16:26] Speaker 04:
So I'm not sure that that sentence meets the standard of clear redefinition of a term with, I think, what is an undisputed ordinary meaning.

[00:16:43] Speaker 04:
Hence, my focus on the spec as a whole, what does it tell you?

[00:16:48] Speaker 04:
Because I'm not at all sure that that sentence does it for you.

[00:16:52] Speaker 00:
Okay.

[00:16:53] Speaker 00:
And there's a lot to unpack there, so let me try it and take it in pieces.

[00:16:57] Speaker 00:
The first thing is, what is it that we are redefining access points as in that statement?

[00:17:05] Speaker 00:
So we are at column one, starting at like lines 30, where it says, currently there's a growing number of Wi-Fi public hotspots, per end, or access points, quotation APs.

[00:17:18] Speaker 00:
So clearly there is a definition going on here, at least as to the acronym AP.

[00:17:23] Speaker 04:
I would say that it is not clear that there is a definition going on.

[00:17:27] Speaker 04:
It's a separate point what it's defining as, if it's defining anything at all.

[00:17:32] Speaker 04:
Because it could mean, which is one example of an access point?

[00:17:37] Speaker 04:
I don't think that the word or... So that's neither disjunctive nor in a positive.

[00:17:42] Speaker 00:
Right, but I don't think that that's a typical meaning of the word or in the English language.

[00:17:46] Speaker 00:
That's what our

[00:17:48] Speaker 00:
Opponents suggest, and let me give you an example.

[00:17:51] Speaker 00:
And this is what we went through in the district court during the Markman hearing.

[00:17:55] Speaker 00:
You might use it disjunctively, like you said, between two alternatives to say, I want a soda or a pop.

[00:18:04] Speaker 00:
And for those of you not from the Midwest, those are the, actually those two are examples of examples where they are using for the same words, different words for meaning the same thing.

[00:18:15] Speaker 00:
But what you might say is, I want coffee or tea.

[00:18:18] Speaker 00:
And there, disjunctively, we have two separate examples.

[00:18:22] Speaker 00:
But what you wouldn't say is, I want a beverage or tea, where you've got a general phrase and then you put an or conjunctively with a more specific example.

[00:18:34] Speaker 00:
That's just not proper English usage for the word or.

[00:18:37] Speaker 00:
In this paragraph, I think that we think that it is clear that you're using or to redefine two different

[00:18:45] Speaker 00:
sets of terms with different words to mean the same thing.

[00:18:49] Speaker 00:
It's just like the Paws Technologies case, the conclusion that the court came to there with respect to the way that or is being used.

[00:18:56] Speaker 04:
Which term in the three-word phrase do you think that the phrase access point has just been redefined to mean?

[00:19:08] Speaker 00:
So I would submit that it's all three, that it's Wi-Fi public hotspots.

[00:19:12] Speaker 01:
The problem with your argument is that it then is undermined because the very word AP is used to describe things that aren't Wi-Fi public hotspots.

[00:19:22] Speaker 01:
It says the AP includes something that's a private hotspot, for example.

[00:19:28] Speaker 01:
That's not a Wi-Fi public hotspot.

[00:19:31] Speaker 01:
Could you point to where... So it undermines your position.

[00:19:35] Speaker 01:
For example, where it says, just in the paragraph right below the one you're pointing us to, it says,

[00:19:41] Speaker 01:
other APs are placed by individuals in their premises but are not locked.

[00:19:48] Speaker 01:
Then it says other APs are placed by individuals are locked or closed, thus not allowing passing STAs to utilize them.

[00:19:56] Speaker 01:
Those are private hotspots and yet it's using your term AP.

[00:20:00] Speaker 00:
So I would actually submit that those are not private hotspots.

[00:20:03] Speaker 00:
Those are public, they're just locked.

[00:20:06] Speaker 00:
There's a different type of hotspot that's actually private

[00:20:10] Speaker 00:
So if you're on your mobile phone and you hit the security button and you're trying to look for what hotspots are in this area, if you actually see it come up, even though it's got the lock there, those are public hotspots.

[00:20:24] Speaker 00:
They may be locked, but they're still publicly accessible.

[00:20:29] Speaker 00:
There are other hotspots, and there might actually be one in this court, that won't even come up.

[00:20:34] Speaker 00:
Those are private hotspots.

[00:20:35] Speaker 01:
As I'm walking through the court, I'm saying that the wifi hotspot in my home is a public hotspot.

[00:20:41] Speaker 00:
It is, it is public in the sense that it could be publicly accessible.

[00:20:45] Speaker 00:
And if you have not set the security on it so that you require a password, it absolutely is.

[00:20:51] Speaker 00:
Like in apartment buildings, it happens all the time that people have the same exact hotspot that you have in your home, but haven't set the security.

[00:20:59] Speaker 00:
And they may have neighbors that are leeching onto them.

[00:21:02] Speaker 00:
So I think that there's a clear difference between a private hotspot and a locked hotspot, which is what is in this specification.

[00:21:09] Speaker 03:
So play with the word or when in column two, at 56 and through 61, it says the APs or the cellular cells.

[00:21:21] Speaker 03:
I think I know what your argument's going to be, but it could be the other way.

[00:21:26] Speaker 00:
I don't think that it could, though, in context, just the same way that I think that if you read

[00:21:31] Speaker 00:
the access points definitional statement in context.

[00:21:34] Speaker 00:
The context tells you which way the word or is being used, exactly the way that the court looked in Paws Technologies.

[00:21:42] Speaker 00:
Is it being used disjunctively to separate two different alternatives or is it being used to redefine in different words really the same concept?

[00:21:53] Speaker 00:
So I agree with you that those are two different ways to use the word or.

[00:21:57] Speaker 00:
But they're both proper.

[00:21:59] Speaker 00:
They're both exactly acceptable within the English language.

[00:22:03] Speaker 00:
And one of the things that our opponents said was... I would have said, well, it's not in quotes.

[00:22:09] Speaker 00:
There are other differences.

[00:22:10] Speaker 00:
I agree with you.

[00:22:10] Speaker 00:
There are different clues as to whether or not it's definitional.

[00:22:14] Speaker 00:
But I think that those are completely appropriate uses of the word or.

[00:22:18] Speaker 00:
And one of the things I wanted to point out was that our opponent says, had you used an IE instead of an or in that access point, if you go back to that,

[00:22:28] Speaker 00:
So if it had said Wi-Fi, public hotspots, paren, IE access points, they argue then you would fall within the cases that have found lexicography with a parenthetical that's defining the term.

[00:22:41] Speaker 04:
But you would still have the question of which of the three words in the three word phrase was being defined.

[00:22:49] Speaker 00:
That's true.

[00:22:50] Speaker 00:
And let me come back to that in just one second.

[00:22:52] Speaker 04:
By the way, what is a hotspot?

[00:22:55] Speaker 00:
That's a good question.

[00:22:56] Speaker 00:
I don't know that I know exactly the answer to that.

[00:22:59] Speaker 00:
I think it is just a device that is providing Wi-Fi accessibility.

[00:23:06] Speaker 04:
Are there non-Wi-Fi hotspots?

[00:23:11] Speaker 00:
Not that I'm aware of.

[00:23:13] Speaker 04:
So hotspot is a term used only when the 802.11 standard is being used for certain wireless communication.

[00:23:23] Speaker 00:
as far as I know, Your Honor, but that's far from definitive.

[00:23:27] Speaker 00:
But let me, so my point was that IE and OR are actually used in the specification interchangeably.

[00:23:34] Speaker 00:
If you look in the next paragraph from where we were in column one, and now I'm at line 38, and this is getting to the point that we've been discussing, that other APs are placed by individuals in their premises but are not locked, IE they're open,

[00:23:52] Speaker 00:
So we're redefining not locked as open.

[00:23:54] Speaker 00:
The next sentence then says, other APs placed by individuals are locked, paren or closed.

[00:24:03] Speaker 00:
So we're defining the word locked as closed, this time using a paren or the exact same way that the patentee just used an IE in the sentence before.

[00:24:14] Speaker 01:
Yet the other parenthetical use of the word or you would not say is an IE.

[00:24:20] Speaker 01:
Exactly.

[00:24:21] Speaker 01:
How do you know that that's so?

[00:24:23] Speaker 01:
I mean, when lexicography is supposed to be very clear, how do we know that that's so?

[00:24:29] Speaker 01:
You've said that it's your position that it's disjunctive, but why?

[00:24:32] Speaker 00:
I think we know from the context.

[00:24:34] Speaker 00:
If you start with the column two, line 52, where this phrase is taken, it's talking about the concept of the handovers.

[00:24:46] Speaker 00:
And it says this concept of handovers is taken from cellular networks.

[00:24:52] Speaker 00:
Handover is usually, and then it explains, managed networks.

[00:24:55] Speaker 00:
It says the network operator in many cases chooses to add cells where coverage or capacity are needed.

[00:25:02] Speaker 00:
In managed networks, the APs, and then it's referring back to its analogy of where it's taking the concept of handovers from, or cellular cells, are synchronized.

[00:25:14] Speaker 00:
And so I think it, again, is the context.

[00:25:16] Speaker 00:
You're trying to make an analogy to the cellular world as to what we're going to do in the Wi-Fi world with APs.

[00:25:25] Speaker 01:
What about the fact that up above that, that very same column around line 40, it's talking about having sometimes an approach would be to have a handset that supports both Wi-Fi and cellular and to have a handover conversation between Wi-Fi and cellular in order to be able to find this

[00:25:44] Speaker 01:
network.

[00:25:45] Speaker 00:
So that again though I think is telling you solutions that are already out there that you can have a handoff and what you are going to have with these STAs is you have to have Wi-Fi but you may also have cellular.

[00:25:57] Speaker 01:
Setting aside your lexicography argument for a minute, what other support do you have for the idea that this invention doesn't at all envision the use of cellular at all?

[00:26:07] Speaker 00:
So I think one thing that you already pointed to is the fact that it says very clearly at line two

[00:26:13] Speaker 00:
starting at, excuse me, column two, starting at line 30, that what we have is a service that is going to compete with or complement cellular.

[00:26:25] Speaker 00:
That is a very clear statement that this invention is not cellular.

[00:26:28] Speaker 00:
It's something that's- Which column is that in?

[00:26:30] Speaker 00:
Two.

[00:26:31] Speaker 00:
Okay.

[00:26:32] Speaker 00:
Lines 30 to ending in 34 is kind of the key phrase.

[00:26:36] Speaker 00:
That this service is competing with or complementing cellular service.

[00:26:42] Speaker 00:
That's very clearly a statement that the invention itself... But complementing would suggest that it uses part of it, right?

[00:26:48] Speaker 00:
That it's in addition to using part of it, absolutely.

[00:26:52] Speaker 00:
It may be that what we want to do is better the Wi-Fi part so that we can do that handoff.

[00:26:57] Speaker 00:
But the focus of the invention throughout the background, and I had five goals here stated quote of the invention that I was going to point you to in the background, but I'm going to switch gears and try and do it in the other parts of the specification.

[00:27:11] Speaker 00:
because the same point can be made.

[00:27:13] Speaker 00:
You can go through the background, and I think you'll come away with a very clear and the only conclusion that can be drawn is that what he was trying to do is improve upon Wi-Fi.

[00:27:26] Speaker 00:
But let me do it in other portions.

[00:27:29] Speaker 04:
Can I ask one very specific thing?

[00:27:31] Speaker 04:
So in the sentence that follows the supposed definitional sentence, these AP

[00:27:39] Speaker 04:
allow Wi-Fi enabled devices, which we refer to as STA.

[00:27:45] Speaker 04:
That parenthetical seems definitional, and I think maybe you've treated it as such.

[00:27:50] Speaker 04:
Is that right?

[00:27:51] Speaker 00:
I believe that that's correct.

[00:27:53] Speaker 00:
Yes, we do.

[00:27:54] Speaker 04:
So what do you make of column five, line 38, 39, that to my eyes uses the term STA to refer to any old cellular phone?

[00:28:07] Speaker 04:
without any reference to WiFi capability.

[00:28:27] Speaker 00:
I haven't, Your Honor, focused on that passage.

[00:28:30] Speaker 00:
I would say that it obviously starts with the situation in Wi-Fi is very different from the situation in cellular networks.

[00:28:37] Speaker 04:
Then it's describing this process in the cellular world of location areas, which is pre-Wi-Fi cellular phones with no dual modes.

[00:28:52] Speaker 00:
I think, though, that a cellular phone is going to have both, so it would still be...

[00:28:58] Speaker 00:
That's a new thing.

[00:29:02] Speaker 00:
That's true.

[00:29:03] Speaker 00:
That would be new.

[00:29:04] Speaker 00:
Um, so I don't, I don't know, your honor, I don't know what to make of, of that, but we're not defining STA.

[00:29:09] Speaker 04:
But I guess what I want, what I'm wondering what to make of is just how linguistically precise various usages are in this spec or not.

[00:29:21] Speaker 00:
Certainly.

[00:29:22] Speaker 00:
And, and what we're, what we're doing here is we're looking at public notice.

[00:29:26] Speaker 00:
And when you've got things like setting off a term with the word or, when you've capitalized access points, when you've put AP in quotations, all of these things are suggesting that you are defining the term.

[00:29:40] Speaker 00:
And I want to get back, if I could for a second, to Judge Stoll's question about the remainder of the specification.

[00:29:46] Speaker 00:
And I think this answers your question, too.

[00:29:49] Speaker 00:
My opponent was not able to cite to anything anywhere else besides the background where cellulars discussed.

[00:29:55] Speaker 00:
But what I can do is point you to several places.

[00:29:59] Speaker 04:
This is like a deposition question or something.

[00:30:02] Speaker 04:
So he wasn't able to.

[00:30:03] Speaker 04:
Are you?

[00:30:03] Speaker 00:
I am.

[00:30:04] Speaker 00:
Thank you.

[00:30:05] Speaker 00:
Thank you for the opportunity.

[00:30:07] Speaker 00:
I can point you to several of them.

[00:30:10] Speaker 00:
And I think what's key here is that a number of them come with the language, a novel aspect of the invention.

[00:30:17] Speaker 00:
And in each one of these, it is something that is unique to Wi-Fi.

[00:30:21] Speaker 00:
It is all Wi-Fi centric.

[00:30:25] Speaker 00:
So let's see.

[00:30:26] Speaker 00:
Let's start at column 8.

[00:30:28] Speaker 00:
And as I said, I was planning to do this with the background, so I'm going to try and do it quickly a little bit on the fly.

[00:30:33] Speaker 00:
But column 8, line 15, it says, another aspect of the invention is to prevent exhaustion of resources at the APs.

[00:30:45] Speaker 03:
You're going to have to wrap up pretty quickly.

[00:30:47] Speaker 00:
OK.

[00:30:47] Speaker 00:
I'll try and give you these very quickly.

[00:30:50] Speaker 00:
The resources point goes back to the background.

[00:30:53] Speaker 00:
where it says that Wi-Fi protocols have limited resources.

[00:30:58] Speaker 00:
The Wi-Fi standard only allows you to connect to a certain number of STAs.

[00:31:03] Speaker 00:
So that's one Wi-Fi.

[00:31:06] Speaker 00:
Just a few lines later, another novel aspect of the invention is to save battery power and reduce network load by reducing the number of location updates in Wi-Fi.

[00:31:17] Speaker 00:
Again, only a Wi-Fi problem.

[00:31:20] Speaker 00:
Later in column eight, starting at lines 45,

[00:31:23] Speaker 00:
Configuring the security and new STAs to work with an existing AP might be a tedious job.

[00:31:28] Speaker 00:
It then explains how you need to configure them for security, only a Wi-Fi problem, not something that's true of cellular.

[00:31:36] Speaker 00:
Column 9, lines 21, another novel aspect of the invention, takes advantage of the fact that the wireless network.

[00:31:48] Speaker 00:
Wireless I may have a run on here, but the wireless network is local again That's true only of Wi-Fi the very nature of cellular is that we're looking at wide access so throughout the specific Thank you your honor and for these reasons we would ask that the court affirm Mr.. Katz I'll give you an extra minute.

[00:32:15] Speaker 02:
Thank you your honor

[00:32:16] Speaker 02:
Your Honor, I would point out that we tend to also be encroaching on factual findings as to what the patent's disclosures would have reasonably conveyed to a skilled artisan at the time of the invention, which would be part of section 112 in the written description requirement.

[00:32:33] Speaker 02:
In this case, the district court's order was just in the area of claim construction.

[00:32:40] Speaker 02:
So the written description aspect is separate from that.

[00:32:46] Speaker 02:
I would also point out that the alleged redefinitions didn't accord with any linguistic custom in the specification as to definitional text.

[00:33:03] Speaker 02:
There are other definitions where IE, for example, was used, but there was no consistent linguistic formula in this case used to define

[00:33:14] Speaker 02:
terms, especially not the one cited by the district court.

[00:33:22] Speaker 02:
I would also point out that in the context of the invention, for example, generally claim one of 306 claims a computing device that serves a client and that is also connected to the internet.

[00:33:41] Speaker 02:
If one were to call that computing device a hotspot

[00:33:44] Speaker 02:
90% of this invention describes how that hotspot facilitates communication with the clients, how it provides address translation, how it handles connections with the client, how the client can talk to more than one hotspot as it were, how it handles data security, privacy and handoffs and tunneling of data packets.

[00:34:08] Speaker 02:
It doesn't have

[00:34:09] Speaker 02:
There is no limitation on how that hotspot connects to the IP network or the internet.

[00:34:15] Speaker 02:
There's no requirement that that hotspot can only connect to the internet through another hotspot, which would be the requirement suggested by the district court's construction.

[00:34:25] Speaker 02:
If there's no questions, thank you for your attention.

[00:34:28] Speaker 02:
Thank you, counsel.

[00:34:30] Speaker 02:
The matter will stand submitted.