[00:00:04] Speaker 01: Our next case is Inventor Global Technology versus Mohawk Energy Limited 18-1356. [00:00:47] Speaker 01: Counselor Summers, you've returned five minutes for the button, correct? [00:00:54] Speaker 00: That's correct. [00:00:55] Speaker 01: Okay, we're ready when you are. [00:00:57] Speaker 00: Good morning. [00:00:58] Speaker 00: May it please the court? [00:00:59] Speaker 00: I am here on behalf of Inventure Global Technology, Inc., the owner of U.S. [00:01:04] Speaker 00: Patent Number 6695-012. [00:01:06] Speaker 00: We are here today because the PTAB erred in holding certain claims of the 012 patent unpatentable due to obviousness. [00:01:17] Speaker 00: The error results from the board's failure to hold Mohawk to its burden of proof, namely to prove a motivation to combine the prior art references and to prove a reasonable expectation of success in combining those references. [00:01:32] Speaker 00: The crux of the party's dispute on appeal is whether competent evidence supports the board's decision. [00:01:40] Speaker 03: So these are all substantial evidence questions. [00:01:43] Speaker 03: Yes. [00:01:43] Speaker 03: You're not asserting any legal error on the board's part today. [00:01:49] Speaker 00: They are all substantial evidence questions. [00:01:51] Speaker 00: I do think there are some legal questions in there as to whether or not certain testimony would be conclusory. [00:01:59] Speaker 00: So I do think that that's a big part of this. [00:02:02] Speaker 03: I'm sorry. [00:02:02] Speaker 03: That was unclear. [00:02:04] Speaker 00: We're not looking for a devotee. [00:02:07] Speaker 03: That's what I meant. [00:02:07] Speaker 03: Everything you're asking us to look at is reviewed under the substantial evidence standard, not a de novo review. [00:02:14] Speaker 00: Yes, Your Honor. [00:02:15] Speaker 00: With the exception of we do think that the board [00:02:18] Speaker 00: did not make sufficient findings as it relates to motivations to combine, and that, I believe, would fall under the de novo standard. [00:02:30] Speaker 00: Because there is no competent evidence supporting the findings of the board, its obviousness determinations must be reversed. [00:02:38] Speaker 00: I'd like to start first by talking about the inventions generally, and then go into the lack of evidence. [00:02:46] Speaker 00: The technology at issue here concerns [00:02:49] Speaker 00: oil and gas. [00:02:50] Speaker 00: In particular, this technology is used to aid in the formation of well bore casings. [00:02:59] Speaker 00: The 012 patent teaches the application of a lubricant, the coupling of tubular members together, and then the expansion of those tubular members to a pre-existing structure. [00:03:15] Speaker 00: The lubrication, which is key here, aids in reducing the frictional force and operating pressure. [00:03:22] Speaker 00: Although use of lubrication was taught in the prior art, the 012 pattern teaches the bonding [00:03:29] Speaker 00: of the lubricant to the tubular members for a more durable and consistent reduction of force required to expand the tubular members. [00:03:37] Speaker 00: For example, the 012 patent teaches that the bond between the lubricant and the interior surface of the tubular members must be sufficient to withstand the sheer forces generated during expansion of the tubular members. [00:03:52] Speaker 00: Mohawk filed this IPR after Inventor [00:03:56] Speaker 00: filed suit for patent infringement in the Southern District of Texas. [00:04:01] Speaker 00: Although there are 20 claims at issue on appeal here, they can be broken down into four categories. [00:04:07] Speaker 00: It'd be first, the claims requiring a chemical or adhesive bonding. [00:04:15] Speaker 00: There's claims requiring a lubricant selected from a certain Marcoosh group. [00:04:23] Speaker 00: Also selecting not just a lubricant, in particular a solid lubricant, but claims involving the use of a binder. [00:04:32] Speaker 00: And then finally, the last group is suspension of particles in a carrier solvent. [00:04:37] Speaker 01: So Counselor, your argument, and I see that it seems to me you're making one argument on this appeal, and that's related to motivation to combine. [00:04:49] Speaker 01: Why would a Poseidon not have been motivated to combine the prior references with those industry standard handbooks? [00:04:58] Speaker 00: Yes, Your Honor. [00:04:59] Speaker 00: And I think it's arguments twofold, that they, one, needed a motivation to combine, but then also needed to show that there was a reasonable expectation of success. [00:05:10] Speaker 00: But turning to your question, [00:05:12] Speaker 00: Your Honor, what we're saying here is that there wasn't evidence presented, that what we have is just simply, hey, here's these textbooks out here. [00:05:20] Speaker 01: I thought your argument was there was no motivation to combine because of unpredictable results. [00:05:29] Speaker 00: You're saying that you believe that's our argument. [00:05:31] Speaker 01: That's what I thought your argument was, that there's no motivation to combine because of unpredictable results. [00:05:39] Speaker 00: That is part of it, but what we're focused on in our first section, the motivation to combine, is that Mohawk did not put on testimony showing that there would be a reason to combine the textbook teachings with the actual patents at issue in this case. [00:06:02] Speaker 03: And so, for example- The prior art, I take it covers everything except [00:06:09] Speaker 03: the specific lubricants, but the prior art teaches the use of lubricants. [00:06:14] Speaker 03: It just doesn't specifically call out every single lubricant used in your claims. [00:06:20] Speaker 03: So isn't the reason to go to the textbook self-evident that the prior art uses lubricants? [00:06:26] Speaker 03: There's a range of lubricants taught. [00:06:28] Speaker 03: All of them are known in the prior art, and therefore you go and you, through experimentation, see which ones work. [00:06:38] Speaker 00: For three out of the four categories of claims, it's not just a lubricant. [00:06:43] Speaker 00: It's actually about the application of that lubricant. [00:06:46] Speaker 00: So it's not just like a plug and play of, oh, let's go to the textbook. [00:06:49] Speaker 00: Here's a listing of lubricants. [00:06:51] Speaker 00: Let's just pick one lubricant out. [00:06:53] Speaker 00: That's not what we have going on here. [00:06:54] Speaker 00: It's the application of it. [00:06:56] Speaker 00: And so in some of the applications, we're talking about bonding it. [00:07:00] Speaker 00: Some of the applications are putting it with a binder. [00:07:03] Speaker 00: And so it's something more than just selecting a lubricant out of a textbook. [00:07:15] Speaker 00: And I think what our point here on appeal is this idea that, look, you can't just say, hey, there's a textbook out here. [00:07:22] Speaker 00: So everything in that textbook, there would be a motivation to combine it. [00:07:26] Speaker 00: You need to have something else. [00:07:27] Speaker 00: There needs to be a next step. [00:07:30] Speaker 03: I was thinking about your answer, and sorry it took me a while. [00:07:33] Speaker 03: I'm a little confused by what you're saying, because you're addressing that as a motivation to combine. [00:07:39] Speaker 03: But you're seeming to suggest that your claims require, in addition to just selecting a lubricant, additional steps of bonding, binding, things like that. [00:07:49] Speaker 03: But I didn't read any of that as the issue, that the combination didn't disclose all these steps, just that there was no reason to go to these manuals for specific lubricants. [00:08:01] Speaker 03: So what are these additional steps? [00:08:04] Speaker 00: Bonding or binding or applying in a certain way have to do with the motivation to combine analysis well your honor the point being that these it's not just a selection of lubricants, but it's a selection as to how to Bind how to attach how to utilize and apply the lubricant But is there any question that the prior art doesn't teach all of those ways of doing it [00:08:34] Speaker 03: I mean, that doesn't seem to be what you argued, that the prior art, the combination doesn't show how to use this specific lubricant in connection with the prior art to achieve your result. [00:08:46] Speaker 03: I thought it was just simply an argument that prior art covers most of the steps, except for the specific lubricants, which are covered by these trade manuals. [00:08:57] Speaker 00: Your Honor, if I'm understanding your question correctly, yes, we agree that the [00:09:05] Speaker 00: prior art patents taught the majority of these elements. [00:09:09] Speaker 03: So why is the nature of the way the lubricants are applied relevant? [00:09:14] Speaker 00: Because that's part of the claim and what's required. [00:09:17] Speaker 00: And the idea being, the way these textbooks have been written about and utilized and suggested by the board is that this is just some type of plug and play. [00:09:29] Speaker 00: Let's look for the lubricant that best fits this [00:09:32] Speaker 00: But the patent concerns the application of the lubricant. [00:09:35] Speaker 03: And so it's not just... But that's not a motivation to combine analysis. [00:09:40] Speaker 03: That would be an argument that even if you combine these two references, it still doesn't show you additional steps of how to apply them. [00:09:50] Speaker 03: And so the prior art wouldn't even cover everything. [00:09:52] Speaker 03: But I didn't see anything in your briefing about missing steps. [00:09:58] Speaker 03: It's all about the specific combination. [00:10:00] Speaker 00: And we're not saying that the prior art doesn't teach how to apply various lubricants. [00:10:07] Speaker 00: It's the idea that there's no testimony, there's nothing showing as to why somebody would go to the textbooks and select these particular applications of particular lubricants. [00:10:20] Speaker 01: It sounds to me like the argument you're making now is undue experimentation, that you've got these lists of lubricants and to expect somebody to go through there [00:10:30] Speaker 01: You know, start with the first one and work all the way through what would require undue experimentation. [00:10:36] Speaker 01: You didn't make that argument below. [00:10:39] Speaker 00: Your Honor, I do think below we raise the argument that, look, looking to the textbooks is a first step. [00:10:48] Speaker 00: And that you can't just say, hey, look. [00:10:51] Speaker 01: That's the motivation to combine. [00:10:53] Speaker 01: Your first step would be to look to the textbooks. [00:10:56] Speaker 01: I mean, that's what a person's skill and art would [00:10:59] Speaker 01: like we do. [00:11:01] Speaker 01: You're into your rebuttal time. [00:11:02] Speaker 01: Do you want to save your time? [00:11:11] Speaker 01: Mr. Saunders? [00:11:13] Speaker 02: Yes, Your Honor. [00:11:15] Speaker 02: May it please the Board. [00:11:18] Speaker 02: Inventor's arguments on appeal, even if they're not waived for not having presented them below, don't help them. [00:11:26] Speaker 02: The Board found the claims obvious on two independent grounds. [00:11:30] Speaker 02: that the claims were merely combining known technologies with predictable results, and that they were selection of known materials based on suitability for intended use. [00:11:39] Speaker 02: And this isn't simply a question of the prior art patents should be combined with any lubricant in the textbook. [00:11:48] Speaker 02: The prior art patents, Vincent Forsyth and Kenley, they teach specific lubricants, they teach wide ranges of lubricants, they teach bonding the lubricants to the inside of a tubular, and [00:12:00] Speaker 02: They teach graphite, for example. [00:12:04] Speaker 02: They also teach suspending solid lubricants and other materials and using those materials to attach the lubricant to the inside of a tubular. [00:12:13] Speaker 01: So why would a person of skill in the art consult the industry textbooks? [00:12:20] Speaker 02: As you mentioned before, the person of ordinary skill in the art would move to the handbooks because that's the first step in choosing or selecting any lubricant. [00:12:29] Speaker 02: as the experts from both sides testified. [00:12:33] Speaker 02: But they wouldn't just look to the textbooks generally, because the prior art teaches them, for example, to bond the lubricant. [00:12:40] Speaker 02: So you go to the section of the textbook that talks about bonding lubricants, where it talks about chemical and adhesive bonding, how you do it, the effects it can have, the benefits it can have. [00:12:51] Speaker 02: Similarly, for example, you go to the section of the handbook that talks about graphite, and there's a lengthy discussion [00:12:57] Speaker 02: Here's why you would substitute molybdenum disulfide for graphite. [00:13:01] Speaker 02: The same thing is true of the sections on applying lubricants, suspending them in a carrier solvent using binders to attach them to the inside of the tubular. [00:13:11] Speaker 02: And I think it's important to note, council mentioned that this invention was about well bores and connection of multiple tubulars and different pressures and none of that's in the claims, none of it at all. [00:13:25] Speaker 02: They made those arguments to the board. [00:13:27] Speaker 02: The board was not convinced because that language is simply not in the claims, and it's an issue that's not on appeal now. [00:13:34] Speaker 02: These claims, the vast majority of the claims that issue on appeal, simply require a pipe with some lubricant on the inside of it and then some aspect of that lubricant. [00:13:45] Speaker 02: And I think when you review the O-12 patent, it's fairly clear that, in fact, the patent is simply describing a tube. [00:13:55] Speaker 02: and how you might expand it, and then a laundry list of every conceivable type of lubricant and type of bonding. [00:14:01] Speaker 02: In fact, the only specific lubricant mentioned as preferred in the 012 patent is from somebody else's patent from 1979. [00:14:08] Speaker 02: And as to the question of reasonable expectation of success, the question is whether or not one could reasonably assume achieving the claimed invention. [00:14:24] Speaker 02: And in this case, the answer is clearly yes, because the claimed invention is very broad. [00:14:28] Speaker 02: Could you bond a lubricant to the inside of a tubular? [00:14:30] Speaker 02: And the answer, reviewing the prior art and the handbooks, the prior art patents and the handbooks, is very clear that, yes, you would expect to achieve that result. [00:14:40] Speaker 02: And whether or not there might be minor variations in performance of a lubricant doesn't matter, because the desired result is simply reducing friction. [00:14:52] Speaker 02: It's not achieving some optimal level of friction reduction or operating in some specific environment. [00:15:04] Speaker 02: I believe there are no questions. [00:15:06] Speaker 02: Okay, thank you for your argument. [00:15:12] Speaker 01: Thank you. [00:15:12] Speaker 01: Counselor, you have five minutes. [00:15:15] Speaker 00: Your Honor, turning to what he was just talking about, this reasonable expectation of success. [00:15:19] Speaker 00: When you look at the board's opinion, it's clear that the board is relying upon the expert in this case, Mr. Tripp for Mohawk. [00:15:27] Speaker 00: But when you look at Mr. Mohawk's declaration in this case, he is very brief in his discussion about why you would combine these references and also the expectation of success. [00:15:44] Speaker 00: It's just a single line. [00:15:45] Speaker 00: He doesn't provide any type of rationale [00:15:49] Speaker 00: as to why there would be a motivation to combine and also an expectation of success. [00:15:55] Speaker 00: And so what we've got here is a conclusory declaration that is no evidence at all in this case. [00:16:00] Speaker 03: Did you object to the declaration at the board? [00:16:05] Speaker 00: Throughout the petitioner, I'm sorry, the patent owner's initial brief, we talked about the fact that there was no evidence. [00:16:17] Speaker 00: We never, I don't believe we made a specific objection on the basis of it being conclusory, but your honor, what you will be doing here is doing a substantial evidence review, and if it's no evidence, it's no evidence whether we objected to it or not. [00:16:36] Speaker 00: And so I think that is really what the issue comes down to here, is that given the fact, the board's reliance on Mr. Tripp's testimony, and even though the board [00:16:46] Speaker 00: specifically says, hey, look, we're just going to accept it for what it is. [00:16:50] Speaker 00: It's clear throughout in their citation of it that they relied heavily on Mr. Tripp's testimony, even though Mr. Tripp provided no support for any of the conclusions he reached regarding predictability and also motivation to comply. [00:17:07] Speaker 00: If there's no further questions. [00:17:09] Speaker 01: OK. [00:17:09] Speaker 01: We thank you for your arguments.