[00:00:03] Speaker 02: We have three cases on the calendar this morning. [00:00:08] Speaker 02: Trade case, veterans case, patent case from the district court. [00:00:15] Speaker 02: All argued. [00:00:18] Speaker 02: First case is Irwin Industrial II versus the United States. [00:00:23] Speaker 02: 2018, 12, 15, Mr. Glover. [00:00:40] Speaker 03: May I begin? [00:00:41] Speaker 01: May it please the Court, I'm Matthew Glover. [00:00:43] Speaker 01: On behalf of the United States, I'd like to reserve three minutes for rebuttal. [00:00:48] Speaker 01: The Court of International Trade erred in applying a narrow definition of wrenches under Heading 8204. [00:00:54] Speaker 01: Its error excludes many commonly and commercially defined models of wrenches and also conflicts with the explanatory notes to Section 8204. [00:01:02] Speaker 01: The Trade Court went about this error by taking terms that were in the dictionaries that it looked at, usually components of wrenches, [00:01:10] Speaker 01: and also in some of the trade manuals, terms that were used to define flat wrenches, but doesn't cover the whole complement of tools that are wrenches. [00:01:19] Speaker 01: Heading 8204 is an AO nominee provision. [00:01:22] Speaker 01: So it defines a class of articles. [00:01:25] Speaker 01: And absent contrary legislative intent, limitation, or exclusion, wrenches in Heading 8204 is meant to cover the entire complement of wrenches, or tools commonly commercially known as wrenches. [00:01:37] Speaker 01: There's one limitation in Heading 8204. [00:01:40] Speaker 01: The wrenches are to be hand operated. [00:01:42] Speaker 01: And there's an exclusion for tap wrenches. [00:01:45] Speaker 01: That's not an issue here. [00:01:49] Speaker 01: So when interpreting heading 8204, under general rule of interpretation one, this court must look at common and commercial meanings and does not defer to the trial court. [00:01:59] Speaker 01: So it's a de novo review. [00:02:00] Speaker 01: Your first step is defining wrenches. [00:02:02] Speaker 01: And that's where the trial court made an error. [00:02:03] Speaker 01: That's where the trial court went wrong. [00:02:07] Speaker 01: Wrenches are in common and commercial usage [00:02:09] Speaker 01: tools which have specific characteristics rendering them the ability to hold an object and turn or twist that object, apply torque to it, or apply torque to prevent the object from turning and twisting. [00:02:21] Speaker 03: If we were to accept your view of a wrench, the classification for a wrench, what would happen to pliers? [00:02:28] Speaker 03: I mean, it seems that they would just swallow up all pliers and almost all hand-held tools. [00:02:35] Speaker 01: No, Your Honor. [00:02:36] Speaker 01: Well, for example, cutting pliers. [00:02:39] Speaker 01: are not designed to hold or turn or twist. [00:02:40] Speaker 01: They're designed to cut something. [00:02:42] Speaker 01: But your traditional pliers don't have specific characteristics rendering them effective for applying torque. [00:02:48] Speaker 01: They have characteristics that make them versatile. [00:02:51] Speaker 01: They're used for holding wire. [00:02:53] Speaker 01: They can get in small places. [00:02:54] Speaker 01: Your traditional pair of pliers, I guess, is a light and nimble tool that can do a lot of things. [00:03:01] Speaker 01: So they wouldn't have the specific characteristics or have the design for being a wrench. [00:03:06] Speaker 03: So a pliers has [00:03:09] Speaker 03: different types of uses or any? [00:03:10] Speaker 01: Yes. [00:03:11] Speaker 03: The versatile tool and the wrench basically has one. [00:03:15] Speaker 01: Well, grasping and then specifically applying torque or grasping and preventing some, applying torque to prevent something from being turned. [00:03:22] Speaker 01: Yes, your honor. [00:03:23] Speaker 01: And it, you know, a lot of pliers and tools could be used to apply torque, but that wouldn't make a traditional pair of pliers a wrench. [00:03:31] Speaker 01: It's those specific characteristics that make it especially suited for and [00:03:36] Speaker 01: allow it to turn or twist or hold an object that's being turned or twist. [00:03:40] Speaker 01: And that's what the locking mechanism on these vice grip tools does. [00:03:45] Speaker 01: The trade court's definition of pliers was a hand tool, or sorry, of wrenches, I apologize, was a hand tool that has a head with jaws or sockets having surfaces adapted to snugly fit or exactly fit and engage the head of a fastener in parentheses such as a bolt or nut and a singular, close parentheses, and a singular handle [00:04:06] Speaker 01: with which to leverage hand pressure to turn the fastener without damaging it. [00:04:10] Speaker 01: This definition has four requirements, thus. [00:04:13] Speaker 01: You need a head with jaws or sockets, you need a singular handle, it needs to work on fasteners, and it needs to not damage the fasteners. [00:04:21] Speaker 01: Those are characteristics of some wrenches, but they're not necessary nor required characteristics of the full complement of wrenches, and in fact, a number of those explicitly exclude tools that are commonly and commercially known as wrenches from the definition of wrench. [00:04:34] Speaker 01: For example, [00:04:35] Speaker 01: The requirement in the trade court's definition that a wrench apply to fasteners would exclude pipe wrenches because they apply to pipes and pipes are not fasteners. [00:04:44] Speaker 01: And that not only conflicts with common and commercial usage of pipe wrench, but the explanatory note to heading 8204, EN 82.04 explicitly lists as wrenches, wrenches for hydrants and pipes and then in parens, including chain type pipe wrenches. [00:05:01] Speaker 01: The requirement that the head have jaws or sockets would also exclude chain-type pipe wrenches because, again, they use a chain, not a socket, and not a head. [00:05:12] Speaker 01: That requirement would also exclude the Allen wrench made ubiquitous by IKEA because it doesn't have a socket. [00:05:18] Speaker 01: Rather, it has a protrusion that works on the inside of the bolt head. [00:05:23] Speaker 01: Similarly, the requirement of having a singular handle would eliminate a number of wrenches, including the cross. [00:05:29] Speaker 01: Of course, these tools are marketed as pliers, aren't they? [00:05:33] Speaker 01: Yes, they are, Your Honor. [00:05:34] Speaker 01: But they were previously marketed by Irwin's predecessor as locking wrenches. [00:05:40] Speaker 01: So the fact that the marketing has changed doesn't change the nature of the tool. [00:05:44] Speaker 01: And it's not dispositive to what is commonly and commercially known as a wrench. [00:05:50] Speaker 01: So again, the requirement of a singular handle, which the CIT looked at, and it's one of the reasons it excluded all of these tools from the definition of a wrench, that would exclude your typical cross lug wrench that has two bars welded together and has a socket on each end typically used for removing tires. [00:06:07] Speaker 01: It would also exclude Swedish pattern pipe wrenches, which often have two handles, and certain other wrenches that have more than one handle. [00:06:18] Speaker 01: And the trade court, in using the singular handle, looked at a definition relied on also by Irwin in Webster's Third International Dictionary that talks about wrenches usually having a singular bar, not being required to have a singular bar. [00:06:38] Speaker 01: The trade court also erred in refusing to consider the use of the specific tools. [00:06:42] Speaker 01: While this is an AO-nominated provision, and so use is not prevalent, the term wrenches [00:06:47] Speaker 03: It is an AO nominee provision. [00:06:50] Speaker 03: That's 8202, 8203. [00:06:54] Speaker 03: Excuse me? [00:06:55] Speaker 03: The header 8203 is an AO nominee provision. [00:06:58] Speaker 01: Yes, as is 8204, your honor. [00:07:00] Speaker 01: Okay. [00:07:01] Speaker 01: 8203 being pliers. [00:07:03] Speaker 01: Why does use matter? [00:07:05] Speaker 01: So this court has said that use can matter for an AO nominee provision in two circumstances if the name of the tariff provision itself inherently suggests a type of use. [00:07:14] Speaker 01: or if use of the subject articles defines them in terms of the identity of the class. [00:07:20] Speaker 01: And that comes from GRK Canada. [00:07:23] Speaker 01: Now, wrenches as a class of tools, as we've defined them, are specifically, they have characteristics intended for grasping and applying torque. [00:07:32] Speaker 01: And so the ability to use a tool to grasp and apply torque is in the definition of wrenches. [00:07:38] Speaker 01: Pliers being more versatile, you would look at the usage to see if it's a nimble, versatile tool for grasping, in some cases cutting, like cutting pliers, stripping wires, work like that. [00:07:53] Speaker 01: The tools at issue are wrenches, under the appropriate definition, because the locking mechanism renders them particularly suitable for grasping and applying torque. [00:08:01] Speaker 01: As Irwin's chief engineer noted, they are, I guess, one of the intended purposes of the model, I believe it was model CR-10, [00:08:08] Speaker 01: when it's locked is to apply maximum torque. [00:08:11] Speaker 01: These are tools of last resort. [00:08:13] Speaker 01: If you have a bolt or a fastener that's been stripped and your other wrenches can't strip it, you can put one of these, you know, tighten one of these, grasp it, and pull that, or torque the bolt loose. [00:08:24] Speaker 01: These tools, the adjustable nature of them also, as with an adjustable, a traditional adjustable wrench that doesn't have a locking mechanism, would allow you to replace a whole set of wrenches. [00:08:33] Speaker 01: You normally need a wrench for each, I guess, size of bolt, size of pipe, size of fastener, [00:08:38] Speaker 01: And so the adjust the built the lock allows you to adjust and basically replace a whole lot of wrenches with the single tool Your argument is not that all pliers should be moved over and made ridges. [00:08:54] Speaker 03: No, your honor Your argument is that these particular pliers these visor grips should be because they lock Because they lock and the locking mechanism renders them particularly soon. [00:09:04] Speaker 03: Do you use it without locking it? [00:09:07] Speaker 01: I believe if you don't lock it, it releases and opens. [00:09:13] Speaker 01: I know they in their brief suggest that you can, but we don't believe the evidence shows that. [00:09:19] Speaker 03: Can you use those pliers, say, to hold a nut while you're tightening the bolt? [00:09:28] Speaker 03: Can't you use those pliers to hold the nut without actually locking them? [00:09:34] Speaker 01: I believe that they, as you compress, I believe that they lock, but, you know, I'm not sure that that's in the record or clear from the record, and so I don't have specific evidence. [00:09:44] Speaker 03: I think it is. [00:09:45] Speaker 03: I think it is in the record, but I don't recall exactly where, but you don't have to lock the vice grip in order to use it. [00:09:53] Speaker 03: Now, to lock it on, to lock the head on a nut, you have to use a locking mechanism, but not to just, you can loosen that bottom screw to a point to where [00:10:04] Speaker 03: It doesn't lock on anything, but you can get it on a nut and hold it. [00:10:08] Speaker 01: When you loosen the bottom screw, you open the size of the head opening. [00:10:11] Speaker 01: But when you were closing them, I believe it's still then locked. [00:10:15] Speaker 01: It's just locked at a much more open position. [00:10:18] Speaker 01: OK. [00:10:25] Speaker 01: If the court doesn't have further questions, I'm happy to rest on our briefs and reserve my time for rebuttal. [00:10:29] Speaker 02: We will save it for you, Mr. Glover. [00:10:32] Speaker 02: Ms. [00:10:32] Speaker 02: Hadfield. [00:10:48] Speaker 00: Good morning, Your Honors, and may it please the court. [00:10:51] Speaker 00: Frances Hadfield on behalf of Irwin Industrial Tools. [00:10:55] Speaker 00: I've got a board. [00:10:56] Speaker 00: In it, I've got a nail. [00:10:58] Speaker 00: I need to get that nail out of the board. [00:10:59] Speaker 00: I take my hammer, I use the back hand of it, and I wrench that nail and try to get it out of the board. [00:11:04] Speaker 00: Unfortunately, the top of that nail pops right off. [00:11:07] Speaker 00: So I say, oh, what am I going to do now? [00:11:09] Speaker 00: I'm going to go back to my tool chest. [00:11:11] Speaker 00: I'm going to go get a pliers. [00:11:12] Speaker 00: I'm going to wriggle it. [00:11:13] Speaker 00: I'm going to pry that nail right on out of that board. [00:11:17] Speaker 00: This case is about the proper classification of industrial tools, locking pliers. [00:11:22] Speaker 00: I know the government would like to frame this as a wrench issue. [00:11:24] Speaker 00: It's not a wrench issue. [00:11:25] Speaker 00: The issue is, how are my locking pliers properly classified? [00:11:29] Speaker 00: In order to do that, what the Court of International Trade did is it had to go and find the common... What if you lock onto something? [00:11:36] Speaker 03: Let's say you lock onto a nut. [00:11:38] Speaker 03: Yep. [00:11:38] Speaker 03: Doesn't that become a wrench at that point? [00:11:40] Speaker 00: No. [00:11:40] Speaker 00: Absolutely not, Your Honor. [00:11:41] Speaker 00: Why not? [00:11:43] Speaker 00: This is an article that I could take my hand [00:11:46] Speaker 00: And I could grab a player that was non-locking and hold it fixed. [00:11:50] Speaker 00: It wasn't locked. [00:11:51] Speaker 00: And I could wrench that thing so those pliers aren't moving. [00:11:55] Speaker 00: How does the application locking it, for convenience sake, in a clamp-style fashion make something a wrench and not a clamp? [00:12:03] Speaker 00: If we're going to talk about locking, we're going to talk locking in terms of clamping. [00:12:07] Speaker 03: And that's actually, if you look at our market... Your argument is that the locking pliers are clamps? [00:12:11] Speaker 00: Absolutely not, Your Honor. [00:12:13] Speaker 00: Locking players are players. [00:12:15] Speaker 00: The locking function of it is more like a clamping function. [00:12:19] Speaker 00: And in fact, if you look at our use in marketing studies, which are, I believe, let's see, 551, I think, in our appendix. [00:12:28] Speaker 03: Let's go back to your scenario here. [00:12:33] Speaker 03: So you're pulling a, you're on your board, and there's a bolt on there, and there's a nut on the other side, and you say, oh, gee, [00:12:43] Speaker 03: I can't unscrew the bolt unless I hold that nut. [00:12:47] Speaker 03: Sure. [00:12:47] Speaker 03: You go to your tool chest, and by the time you get there, you forget the size of the wrench that you need to hold that. [00:12:55] Speaker 03: You can get one of these pliers knowing that it's going to work, correct? [00:12:59] Speaker 00: Or a regular pliers knowing that it's going to work. [00:13:01] Speaker 00: Either one. [00:13:03] Speaker 00: And when we're going back to the common commercial meaning of the term pliers, well, how do we start with common for statutory purposes? [00:13:12] Speaker 00: But what this court has always done is it's always gone to the ASME and lexicons that are specific to the type of tool or item that's additional. [00:13:20] Speaker 00: It did it in Rocknell-Fassner. [00:13:22] Speaker 00: It did it in GRK. [00:13:23] Speaker 00: It did it in Havel-American. [00:13:26] Speaker 00: So we have cases where, and Customs and Border Protectionists said this as well, that it's particularly useful to use ASME, ANSI, those types of standards in defining the common meaning of a term. [00:13:38] Speaker 00: So we have the Court of International Trade [00:13:41] Speaker 00: that has used the ASME standard and the hand tool guide, which is referenced in the ASME standard, to define the term at issue, players. [00:13:51] Speaker 00: And locking players, as it happens, meets both the ASME and the hand tool guide standard. [00:13:56] Speaker 00: If you look at the ASME, it lists players. [00:14:00] Speaker 00: It also, in the hand tool standard, lists players. [00:14:03] Speaker 00: And locking players come under both of those headings. [00:14:07] Speaker 03: And the government has been- So what do you do with Alan Rinches and Shane Pike [00:14:11] Speaker 03: cutters, and chain pipe wrenches. [00:14:14] Speaker 00: If we're going to go to the court's definition, I'm not going to die on the hill of the court's definition of wrench being correct, Your Honor. [00:14:19] Speaker 00: If I was going to define wrench, I would say that it was a base metal tool with a single handle or frame that is used to apply rotational torque. [00:14:30] Speaker 00: So there's my definition of wrench. [00:14:34] Speaker 03: Why doesn't that include the locking pliers? [00:14:38] Speaker 00: because it's a single handle and the sole purpose of a wrench is to provide rotational torque. [00:14:44] Speaker 00: Let's go back to my nail example. [00:14:48] Speaker 00: Can I get a nail out of a board with a wrench? [00:14:53] Speaker 00: No, I can't. [00:14:55] Speaker 00: With a socket wrench or a box head wrench or anything, that nail is stuck. [00:15:02] Speaker 00: The only way I can get that nail out of the board is with a pliers. [00:15:05] Speaker 00: And you had earlier talked about, are we going to make all players into wrenches? [00:15:10] Speaker 00: Well, how about a slip-joint players? [00:15:12] Speaker 00: A slip-joint player? [00:15:12] Speaker 03: You're making a strong argument as to the importance of use in this case. [00:15:18] Speaker 03: That's not what you want to be, right? [00:15:20] Speaker 00: I have no thought that this should be a use provision. [00:15:25] Speaker 00: This is an aonominy provision. [00:15:26] Speaker 00: And I don't even think that these, like quon-quon, are two conflicting provisions where they're equally applicable. [00:15:32] Speaker 00: These aren't equally applicable provisions under the common [00:15:35] Speaker 00: definition, locking players are under players. [00:15:38] Speaker 00: If we go to commercial, which the government brushed over, commercial definition has to deal with the product as sold at the time of importation. [00:15:45] Speaker 00: And so all of the evidence in the record is at the time of importation, these products are sold as players, locking players. [00:15:53] Speaker 00: They are marketed as such, online they are sold as such, they're not sold under a wrench category. [00:16:00] Speaker 00: So we have a common commercial definition that meets the AO nominee requirements [00:16:04] Speaker 00: of pliers in the tariff. [00:16:10] Speaker 03: But to what extent should we rely on use? [00:16:14] Speaker 00: I'm sorry? [00:16:15] Speaker 03: To what extent should we rely on use? [00:16:18] Speaker 00: Not at all, Your Honor. [00:16:19] Speaker 00: These are A.O. [00:16:20] Speaker 00: nominee provisions. [00:16:22] Speaker 00: Use is not implicated. [00:16:24] Speaker 03: You were arguing that. [00:16:24] Speaker 03: And you were making plenty of arguments concerning the use of the pliers, right? [00:16:30] Speaker 00: Mm-hmm. [00:16:30] Speaker 00: OK. [00:16:30] Speaker 00: And I wouldn't say use. [00:16:32] Speaker 00: I would say application. [00:16:33] Speaker 00: Let's put it that. [00:16:34] Speaker 00: Use has a specific meaning within the tariff. [00:16:38] Speaker 00: Are we talking about actual use? [00:16:40] Speaker 00: Are we talking about principal use? [00:16:42] Speaker 00: We don't have language within the terms of the statute that has some sort of indicia, like self-tapping screw, I believe it was in GRK, where that indicated a use. [00:16:52] Speaker 00: Neither wrench nor pliers indicates a use. [00:16:55] Speaker 00: It indicates an article. [00:16:56] Speaker 02: An article that has an application. [00:16:58] Speaker 02: What's the relevance of twisting? [00:17:00] Speaker 00: I'm sorry? [00:17:01] Speaker 02: Twisting. [00:17:01] Speaker 00: Twisting, yes. [00:17:02] Speaker 00: Players twist, locking players twist. [00:17:06] Speaker 03: Wrenches twist? [00:17:07] Speaker 00: I'm sorry? [00:17:08] Speaker 03: Wrenches twist? [00:17:09] Speaker 00: Wrenches? [00:17:10] Speaker 03: Wrenches. [00:17:11] Speaker 00: Wrenches. [00:17:12] Speaker 00: Wrenches. [00:17:12] Speaker 00: A wrench provides rotational torque. [00:17:14] Speaker 00: I would say that's a different thing. [00:17:16] Speaker 00: I can move my wrist in this fashion to twist either a locking players or to twist a regular players. [00:17:23] Speaker 00: If I'm going to unbolt something, I'm going to provide rotational torque to it. [00:17:31] Speaker 00: with a single-handled article. [00:17:36] Speaker 00: All right, so back to my articles being players. [00:17:40] Speaker 00: So the court's definition was a versatile hand tool with two handles and two jaws that are flat or serrated and are on a pivot. [00:17:48] Speaker 00: Sounds like a player's. [00:17:49] Speaker 00: Which must be squeezed together to enable a tool to grasp an object. [00:17:53] Speaker 00: Sounds like a player's. [00:17:54] Speaker 00: The jaws may or may not lock together to hold the object while using the tool. [00:17:58] Speaker 00: Now Judge Raina, I believe what you were referring to is in the affidavit of Mr. Lucas, he had talked about that the tool can be used in an unlocked position. [00:18:09] Speaker 00: That is true. [00:18:09] Speaker 00: So if you take the screw end on the original pliers and you move it down, you do not have to engage the locking mechanism in order to hold something. [00:18:19] Speaker 00: And I believe that was in his affidavit. [00:18:22] Speaker 00: Under the court's definition, we meet the term players. [00:18:26] Speaker 00: And the players' provision, both the heading and the subheading, are actually class. [00:18:31] Speaker 00: Now, the government misspoke when they said that wrenches are a class. [00:18:34] Speaker 00: In order for a tariff statute to be a class of items, it has to have specific language. [00:18:41] Speaker 00: And there's plenty of court cases that have so little help. [00:18:44] Speaker 00: It has to say, and similar articles. [00:18:47] Speaker 00: There's nothing in the wrench provision that says, and similar articles. [00:18:51] Speaker 00: It's four things. [00:18:53] Speaker 00: That's all we have in that provision. [00:18:55] Speaker 00: So we are not within the scope of that provision, either by the common meaning that's defined by the ASME and the hand tool guide, Webster's dictionary, which also the court relied on in making these definitions up, or the ENs. [00:19:11] Speaker 00: So we have a group or a class of players instead, not wrenches, [00:19:17] Speaker 00: And we have, in similar articles, cutting players, regular players, whether they lock or unlock, they all fall under that statutory heading. [00:19:31] Speaker 00: And you know, one of the things that Victoria's Secret, a decision that the Federal Circuit used when talking about Adjustum Generis classifications with players, [00:19:40] Speaker 00: is that, you know, you have to use a common sense assessment of what articles are. [00:19:45] Speaker 00: And it is common sensical that if we have the ASME and we have a hand tool guide and we have industry standards, and that hand tool guide, by the way, is a consensus opinion of all the American manufacturers as to what these products are, and it says so in its introduction, then the unifying item and that these players are in fact as a consensus matter, [00:20:08] Speaker 00: and in a just and generous manner, pliers, locking pliers, cutting pliers, and regular pliers. [00:20:16] Speaker 00: No marketing to indicate that these products are sold in a manner other than as pliers. [00:20:37] Speaker 02: Anything further, counsel? [00:20:39] Speaker 00: No, I was going through my list of notes, your honor. [00:20:41] Speaker 00: I don't believe I have anything further. [00:20:45] Speaker 00: No, your honor? [00:20:46] Speaker 02: No one ever loses points by not using all that time. [00:20:50] Speaker 00: Thank you, sir. [00:20:51] Speaker 02: Mr. Glover, you have some rebuttal time? [00:20:54] Speaker 01: Yes, your honor. [00:20:58] Speaker 01: I'd like to make a couple of points. [00:21:00] Speaker 01: First of all, we're not contending that, or I guess let me back up in terms of [00:21:04] Speaker 01: opposing counsel's statement that wrenches are not a class in the provision. [00:21:08] Speaker 01: Provision 8204 is an AO nominee provision. [00:21:11] Speaker 01: And as this court made clear in Camelback and in other cases, quote, absent limitation or contrary legislative intent, an AO nominee provision includes all forms of the named article, even improved forms. [00:21:22] Speaker 01: That's at 649 F3 at 1364 to 65. [00:21:26] Speaker 01: So we're merely stating that wrenches, when it's used in heading 8204, is meant to include all forms of [00:21:34] Speaker 01: the article, all forms of wrench. [00:21:35] Speaker 01: And from GRI 1, we know that that means all tools that have a common and commercial definition. [00:21:40] Speaker 01: As I stated on direct, obviously there's the exclusion of tap wrenches and the limitation of these need to be hand-operated wrenches under 8204. [00:21:49] Speaker 01: I believe opposing counsel noted that she's not willing to die on the CIT's definition, but that's where the CIT went wrong right away. [00:21:57] Speaker 01: And in hearing her argument, she emphasized that wrenches have a single bar. [00:22:01] Speaker 01: If you look at the deposition testimony of Irwin's chief engineer, I believe it's at 690 and appendix 699 or 698 to 699, he discusses that when the locking mechanism is engaged, the second lever isn't operating as a bar. [00:22:15] Speaker 01: And so in addition, the single bar requirement does eliminate your cross type lug wrench, as I discussed on my initial discussion. [00:22:27] Speaker 01: A wrench indicates torquing. [00:22:29] Speaker 01: And in the ASME standard for locking pliers class one, which these fit into, there is a torque requirement and a torque test. [00:22:36] Speaker 01: The ASME standards for locking pliers also includes clamps in class, I believe it's three, it may be two. [00:22:42] Speaker 01: I apologize, but we discussed that in our brief. [00:22:44] Speaker 01: If the court has no further questions, I'm happy to give back the remainder of my time. [00:22:51] Speaker 02: Thank you. [00:22:51] Speaker 02: I think we have a good grip on the case. [00:22:54] Speaker 01: Take care of it. [00:22:55] Speaker 02: We'll take it under advisement.